OA Sash Questions

[UCEagle72]

There are two "official" patches that may be worn on any OA sash -- however, they both needed to be earned, and only during two specific years.

 

The 50th anniversary patch, and the 60th anniversary patch.

 

I was an arrowman under 21 when the 60th anniversary was held (1976-1977). In fact, I still have a scorecard (yes, that many years ago) with the tasks that needed to be completed by June 14, 1977. You needed to complete 11 of the 15 requirements including the 6 mandatory requirements. If I have time this weekend, I will scan the scorecard.

 

I still proudly wear my 60th anniversary award just above the top bar on my sash. I was the only member of my Chapter to earn the award, and I believe there were only 5 of us who earned the award in Mi-Gi-Si O-Paw-Gan Lodge No. 162.

 

Here is a picture: http://www.rbb.me/OA60thAward.jpg

 

( BTW - you will find a thread on beaded sashes and legends - http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=176696 )

 

[BDPT00]

 

- Old_OX_Eagle83

 

 

"Beading or any other material is not permitted on the sash."

- Order of the Arrow Handbook

 

Any questions?

BDPT00

[BSA24]

Some of you kill me - and you kill the spirit of scouting. Insignia GUIDE, folks, not Insignia COMMANDMENTS. The phrasing of these responses and of some uniform police at scouting events... I feel embarrassed for some of you.

 

Let's talk about reality instead of imagined power that does not exist.

 

If I wear a black or red sash to an OA event, no one can do anything about it. What are you going to do? Drum me out? Seize it from me? Push me down and take my lunch money? No, you aren't going to do anything except come up like a nerdy know-it-all and say, "You aren't allowed to wear that."

 

I'm a friendly scout, so I will smile back and say, "Well, I'm wearing it. What now?"

 

And that's where it ends right there. You can go pound sand and cry yourself to sleep at night in your tent, because Scouting is not about having perfect uniforms. The uniform is a tool - nothing more.

 

And yes, the ends in scouting are exactly what justify the means - brotherhood, cheerfulness, and service - these are why the means exist.

 

Why is scouting membership declining? Because we are in danger of becoming a nerd festival of unpleasant rules enforcing jerks instead of smiling scouts who spend their time in services of others.

 

BSA24

[desertrat77]

I was at the '79 NOAC and had the good fortune to see E. Urner Goodman tour an events venue with several hundred Arrowmen present. More than a few sashes had beads and legends and a bunch other "unauthorized" stuff sewed or pinned on.

 

Somehow, inspite of these horrendous violations of official sash policy as per the OA Handbook, everyone had a good time, and Mr. Goodman was enjoying himself quite a bit, shaking hands and visiting. I didn't seem him correct one Arrowman. In fact, I don't recall one person correcting another over uniform trivia that week, and people were definitely being creative with patches, beads, pins and other doo dads.

 

How could this have happened? Didn't we realize that that page in the OA handbook dictating sash policy was more important than spirit of brotherhood and cheerful service?

 

I guess we just didn't know any better. Thank goodness we have people quoting uniform guidance these days. I guess everyone has a role in the BSA, and the guide quoters usually consider their efforts as "service." Bless them as they perform their "duty."

[gcnphkr]

I find it amazing the reactions that people have when the Uniform Guide is mentioned. Here we are in a discussion about the use of beaded sashes. Someone points out that they are not official and should not be worn. Predictably, people get bent out of shape about being told what to do. Frankly, the "What are you going to do about it?" attitude is tiresome. I'll wager that no one has every told them to stop wearing whatever it is that they are wearing and they feel a bit put off that no one has noticed what rebels they are. They then latch on any apparent attempt to infringe on their individuality here on the forum. Uniform Police is the reason that membership slipping--please. Get over yourself. Self important popinjays that have to be "special" are more of an insure.

 

This is what I have to ask, "Why would anyone wear the legend, a black sash or a beaded sash?" Are the trying to promote the Order or just themselves?

[acco40]

Again, someone asks a question about what is proper uniform wear, a correct response is given and the correct responder is pilloried for being a kill joy. I've see it way too many times in this forum.

 

Should military members salute with their right hand? Yes. So are you going to crucify the guy that states the obvious and because some veterans and current service men have lost their right arms due to combat injuries? Sheesh.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Ive not been back on the site for a bit, sorry If Ive not responded. Im not sure if any of the less than polite comments are directed at me, if so, sorry if I offended anyone. I was incorrect in policy on the point of beading, and do appreciate that being pointed out, as I dont want to misinform anyone, ever.

 

In as far as rebellion, and disobeying uniform policy, as set out in the insignia guide, that is personal choice. Dr. Goodman wore a beaded sash until his death in 1981, I cant see when he first started wearing one, but I know he did as early as the 50s, the point is this was not a big deal to him. I dont see the harm in a beaded sash, I own one, and am making another. Sometimes policies are put in place that are just silly; this is one, in my opinion. Im not saying put whatever you like on your sash, far from it. I understand the intent behind the high contract uniform device of the order.

 

The beaded sash I have was made as a youth in 1985, it is made of check glass, milky chalk white background, and transparent check glass for the other parts. This sash does have the legend, my own version. The sash was designed for a dual purpose. The part I played in ceremonies involved the legend, it was a prop. I was the lodges dance team chief for several years, and this often cast me as MC of the team, and the beaded sash went well with my regalia, when I was not dancing. The transparent glass, in the light of a fire, comes to life. The new sash Im making will be beaded in a traditional way, lazy stitch on leather, with traditional greasy colors, and no legend.

 

I doubt Ill wear either sash much. I see beaded sashs as art, an expression of devotion to the order, and a tribute to our native ancestors. Why not wear a beaded sash all the time? This is a no brainer, its heavy, fragile, and made more special if reserved for special occasions.

 

This is all my opinion, not policy. For my part, yea, Ill wear a beaded sash from time to time, even knowing it violates policy. Ill also continue, as Ive now started, to get this policy changed, as it, in my opinion, discourages good things, for no good purpose. Maybe Im just getting old and crotchety, lol. I was taped out by a Lodge Chief in a beaded sash 30 years ago this summer. I was given my ordeal sash by a Lodge Chief wearing a beaded sash handed down chief to chief for fifty years. I was given my vigil by a vigil chief wearing my lodges traditional beaded vigil totem, 26 years ago, I wear that same beaded totem from time to time.

 

Native American lore is a part of this order, is it to go the way of outdoor program, and be removed? Not on my watch

 

 

[gcnphkr]

Old_OX_Eagle83:

 

I would be very surprised if any of this was directed at you. Wear your sash when you want. Despite the cries that the Uniform Police are out to ruin everything, I would be very surprised if anyone would say a thing about it beyond, "That is kind of cool. Where did you get it?" When you then tell them about how you made it and its history they will likely be even more impressed.

 

That being said, other people that wear faux sashes, just to call attention to themselves deserve a whack now and then.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Thanks for the kind words jet526. I understand, and agree with your on the faux sashes. What I bead is a representation of the current sash, and am in large part beading a new one so that it will not display the legend, as I no longer have a reason to have it on my sash.

 

For me the OA/Native American Lore, and history connection has a special meaning. My involvement in my lodge dance team, and ceremony team, caused me to discover my own Native American heritage, and unexpectedly my familys history in the region, including our roles in founding several cities, service in Colonial Militias, and service in the Continental Army under Colonel Clark (George Rogers Clark). None of this would have came about without the OA AIA activities. The OA, as part of scouting, encourages us to explore new interests, history, and art. Beadwork, regalia, and lore peak interest in learning more about the native people of this land.

 

[gcnphkr]

Cool.

 

My son is wanting to find out more about his history. I don't think we have an ancestor on the Dawes Roll, but he wants to find out about his Cherokee roots. He is currently making his own warbonnet. He doesn't have the patience for the fine bead-work. Now that he has been awarded the Vigil, he will likely redo his breast plate. The arrow is incorporated into the center strip with pony beads.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Cool.

 

My son is wanting to find out more about his history. I don't think we have an ancestor on the Dawes Roll, but he wants to find out about his Cherokee roots. He is currently making his own warbonnet. He doesn't have the patience for the fine bead-work. Now that he has been awarded the Vigil, he will likely redo his breast plate. The arrow is incorporated into the center strip with pony beads.

 

jet526

Give your son my congratulations, the Vigil Honor is quite a mark of recognition, I can only imagine youre one proud papa about now. Honestly, being given the Vigil Honor meant more to me than earning Eagle Scout. Before anyone gets upset, Im not taking a thing away from Eagle, it is a monumental accomplishment, and statement of a young mans quality. Let me explain the distinction Im making.

 

I was inducted into the order in the old days, when each unit was given a limited quota, and was deeply honored that my fellow scouts put me forward for membership, It said something to me words could never express. Just as non-members choose who shall be admitted to the order, it is your lodge brothers who give you the Vigil Honor. Neither membership in the Order, nor the Vigil Honor can be earned, and seeking either will make it quite elusive. The Vigil is a mark of recognition, and nod, from those who have devoted themselves to a life of cheerful service, that the Arrowman in question, by his/her unselfish actions, and devotion, stands out, sets a standard, and is worthy of esteem from this august group. Jet be proud of your son, and yourself, for his upbringing.

 

My blood is Choctaw, so its the Armstrong Roll Im looking at. I know the names to prove the link, Its the supporting records Im wrestling with. As far as a Cherokee relative, Id look carefully at that. Theres nothing wrong with the fine Cherokee people, dont get me wrong, its just that in frontier days people generalized, calling all native relatives Cherokee, as Cherokee were seen as the most civilized native people of this region. Be proud of your native blood, in this day there is much we can learn from our ancestors, their teachings will help us learn how to live in harmony with our environment.

 

If your also interested in the revolution, heres a link to information about Captain Nicholas Cardinal, of whom Im a direct descendant.

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Thirty years ago when I was Scoutmaster, the troop tradition was for OA members to wear their sash at Courts of Honor. I think that was a good tradition.

 

However, perhaps it doesn't meet a strict reading of OA rules.

 

If not, then perhaps OA members who undertook some task at the COH might be encouraged to wear their sash ---- manning the sign in table to welcome those who are arriving, for example.

[BSA24]

This thread has been resurrected! It's a miracle!

 

I'll happily pile on.

 

Anyone that looks at the uniform guide in reference to anyone's uniform other than their own has lost perspective.

 

It's a "guide." It's not a law. It says the official way to do things. There are no consequences for not following the guide other than social harassment and teasing. There's no such thing as a "violation."

 

OA's rules about sashes are silly. They are overly controlling and fail to acknowledge the wide feedback they are getting from their own membership about wanting to hang it on the belt, wanting black sashes, and wanting lodge flaps that indicate membership degrees.

 

It's hard to care about their rules when they are arbitrary and decided by people in some tower somewhere who do not seem to care what the population is doing or wants to do. Very undemocratic, really.

 

 

[BSA24]

Web forum burped. Sorry for double post.(This message has been edited by BSA24)

[johnponz]

The uniform guide exists for a reason, and I believe we should try to follow it. That being said if someone knows the rules and chooses to break them, not much we can do. Scouts are required to be obedient by the Scout Law but there is no punishment if you're not. It is just a matter of honor.

 

However that should not stop someone from going up to a person and letting them know what the rules are (my assumption is that they do not know the rule if they are breaking it, and I just want to inform them so they can fix it if they want to. This is being courteous, kind and friendly). In the instant case someone specifically asked what the rule was and it was answered, why all the consternation that someone knew the rule and was friendly enough to answer?

 

I have to chuckle at BSA 24's comments though because I do not understand how in other threads he is so adamant that Scouts must wear the official pants (I agree with this by the way). I guess someone appointed him to be the authority of which parts of the uniform guide were required and which were optional.