Cub Scouter Arrowmen

[EagleWB]

Bob White thanks you are quick.

[EagleWB]

But Bob White, it still doesn't say the adult must be registered to the Troop unless you take the "Adult leaders in units" to mean this. The Cub card also says they are registered members of the Boy Scouts of America.

[Bob White]

"Each year, upon holding a troop or team election for youth candidates that results in at least one youth candidate being elected, the unit committee may recommend one adult for every 50 youth members to the lodge candidate selection committee.

 

So if a troop or team elects a youth then that units committee can put one adult leader in that unit up for membership. This excludes adults who are not registered, or not in a Troop or Tteam program from membership in the OA. Cub Leaders and Venturing leaders are inelligible unless dual registered in a troop or team.

 

If this is still unclear contact your local OA adult advisor and they will will explain it also.

 

Hope this helps,

Al

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Twocubdad]

So based on that clause, it would be acceptable for the troop or team committee to nominate a Cub Scouter from their brother unit, or for that matter any other registered adult who otherwise meets the membership requirements, correct?

 

Clearly, the intent of that sentence is to set the 50:1 ratio and the authority of the unit committee to make the recommendation. Limiting adult nominations to registered Boy Scout or Venturer leaders is an inference at best.

[Bob White]

First twocub dad, there is no such term in the BSA as a "brother unit". troops, packs, teams and crews are all separate charters, individual units even if held by the same chartering organizations.

 

Second, they can only offer for membership adults within that unit.

 

Third, the eligle units are Boy Scout Troops and Varsity Teams, not Venturing Crews, and it is not an inference it is stated specifically.

"Each year, upon holding a troop or team election for youth candidates

 

If still unclear contact the Adult advisor for your local Council OA chapter and they will explain it again.

 

Hope this helps more,

Bob White

[htc1992eaglescout47553]

2CubDad,

 

There is one thing you must know. The Order of the Arrow was founded in 1915. The Cub Scouts was founded in 1930. When the OA was founded, Cub Scouts did NOT exist.

 

Secondly, the Order of the Arrow, like Scouting in general, is meant for the YOUTH (Boy Scout Age).

 

Thirdly, in order for an adult be elected, they MUST be a registered member of THAT SPECIFIC UNIT.

 

Scenerio (fiction): Mr Daniels is a Member of Troop 123 as an Assistant Scoutmaster. Troop 123 is having their election tonight. An adult member of Troop 123 recommended Mr. Daniels to be called out at the OA ceremony. Troop 123 is sponsored by the local Baptist Church.

 

Here is Mr. Wright, a Cubmaster of Pack 987. Pack 987 is sponsored by the local Catholic Church.

 

Finish the story, how can Mr. Wright be tapped out if he is not a member of the Troop?

 

Oh, by the way, in my youth, I served as my local Chapter's Secretary.

[Twocubdad]

Okay guys, fine. I'm really not trying to pick a fight. I'm only asking where it is written that the person being nominated by a troop or team's committee must be registered to that unit. I don't read that in the text that has been quoted thusfar.

 

Any registered Scouter can be nominated to OA membership, as a district Scouter, if nothing else. What's the difference if a troop or team wants to use their slot to nominate a worthy Cub Scouter or Venture leader? htc, if you will read back through the thread, I'm the one who pointed out that OA is for the boys, not the adults. Adult membership is for those whose talents and abilities can be an asset to the Order. If an adult can make a contribution, what's the difference how they are registered or who brings their name to the selection committee?

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

we are trying to get you to understand twocubdad that the OA is for the traditional Boy Scout program which includes Varsity teams but not Cub packs or Venturing Crews. You are trying to hard to read more into the rules than there is.

 

I wish you luck, but you will find that your local OA selection committee will require all youth and adult members be registered a troop or team members.

 

Bob White

[matuawarrior]

We must be doing things differently here but then again this is Guam and we've always been the black sheep of our council and we've always acted as a mini council. I'm still working on mending the fences.

 

Our OA chapter allows Venture Crew Males who are first class and above, and who meet the camping requirements, and not yet 18 years old to be elected and then tapped out, oops, I meant called out. We've followed this from the Exploring Program prior to 1997 before the new Venturing Program started. Only the active males can elect those nominated and this really causes an uproar with our female members. We have not received word from our Lodge regarding any changes but like I said were the black sheep.

 

Maybe because were so far from our council that things have always been done differently.

 

Matua(This message has been edited by matuawarrior)

[Bob White]

matua, here is a page from the National OA website. www.oa-bsa.org

 

Q/A: Venturing Crew Elections

Q: There has been some disagreement as to whether or not Venturing Crews can have OA elections and elect candidates for OA membership. Some people in our lodge say they can, while our Lodge Adviser says they can not. Can you please clear this up for us?

 

A: Your lodge adviser is correct.

 

Order of the Arrow elections can be held in Boy Scout Troops and Varsity Scout Teams only.

 

For more details, see Operations Update 99-2, available on this web site

 

 

Twocubdad

The same site refers to the passage I have already posted regarding adult selections, which states that the adult leader must be nominated from the unit that held an election where on youth was selected. Since only troops and teams may hold elections only adults registered to the troop or teams may be selected.

 

Bob White

[matuawarrior]

BW

 

Thanks for the info. Looks like we'll be doing some changing here in our OA chapter. I'll have to call up our advisor and tell him the new information. Here were using old resources to provide the program.

 

So what do we do with the crew members that are now OA members? The only solution is for them to dual register with a troop.

 

AT least we know now, the correct guidelines.

 

You know in a way that may help these troops here with low memberships bring back some of the older scouts that transferred into crews. For me its different because my crew members are also dual members with my troop. I know some of the other crews are not like that.

 

 

 

Matua

[nldscout]

 

Unless a leader has spent time at a "Boy Scout" long term camp, they would not meet the qualifications.

 

"After registration with a troop or team,

have experienced 15 days and nights of

Boy Scout camping during the two-year

period prior to the election. The 15 days

and nights must include one, but no

more than one, long-term camp

consisting of six consecutive days and

five nights of resident camping,

approved and under the auspices and

standards of the Boy Scouts of America"

 

Notice it says Boy Scout camping. This does not include Webelos camping, and I know of no webelos camps that go six days and nights.

 

The only way a cubscouter could, would be if he was dual registered with a troop and went with them camping.

 

[Twocubdad]

You guys are having to dig awfully deep to support your position. If the policy is "Adult candidates must be registered Boy Scout or Varsity leaders," then those words were certainly available to the the folks who wrote the book. If that is the intent of the policy, we shouldn't have to parse other sections to devine the intent.

 

That's especially true when the very next section of the policy details how the selection committee can approve any registered leader who can contribute to the Order, even if that means waiving the camping requirements -- arguably the core of OA membership.

 

It's also interesting that former youth members can become active adult members regardless of their registration. Me, for example. If adult membership is limited to traditional Boy Scout and Varsity leaders, why isn't the policy consistent and have folks like me wait until we move into a troop?

[Bob White]

Twocubdad,

Part of the problem could be that as a fairly new leader you have a limited understanding of the program outside of your current responsibility. You are basing your expectations of the OA on some flawed premises. Brotherunit, camping is the core of membership in the OA, former youth members of the OA, Troops and teams not referred to?

 

 as explained before there are no such things as brother units

 Camping is a requirement for candidacy but service is the core of OA.

 Once inducted into the OA you are a member for life. Keeping up on your scouting membership and OA dues makes you an active member.

 The selection rules specifically state that the elections come form troops and teams only and that adult nomination come from the units where those elections are held for adults in those units.

 

That seems pretty clear. What might help would be if you spoke to your local council OA advisor.

 

Bob White

 

[purcelce]

twocubdad,

 

BW has stated the best advice. Contact the Lodge Advisor, or Lodge Staff Advisor. They will be more than happy to answer your questions or concerns.