OA may be a nice organization, but...

[YoungBlood]

"When's the last time OA has come in to your troop to make a presentation? OA is not supposed to be a popularity contest."

 

Why I know this to be true, I find the hard part is convincing the boys in a troop to come to this realization. I know my troop was and is guilty of often times making it a popularity contest. Just telling the boys not to vote that way doesn't really seem to make a difference. Unfortunately, I don't really have a solution to this problem. Maybe somebody here does?

[eagle90]

Younglblood, no matter how many times it is told to the scouts, no matter who tells them (SM, OA members, etc.)

it is not a popularity contest, IT IS A POPULARITY CONTEST. Unfortunately I think that is always going to be the case. I have over the years marveled at who our scouts have elected. But I guess that is why it is a boy election and not adults.

[Mike Long]

You have a problem that the scouts elect their own into OA cause you see it as a popularity contest but you are Ok with them voting for troop leadership.

 

Really? There isn't an aspect of popularity to leadership elections? Why no hue and cry to reform unit leadership elections? Why not have the adults appoint both? Think about it.

 

Also if your older guys are more interested in OA than your troop's program then that is a wake up call. Look at you program and the OA program and see what it is they like so much better about OA. What are you no longer offering them? And really, is it such a bad thing that they are interested in a different aspect of scouting?

 

When I was a scout the OA in my area was a dynamic service organization filled with scouts who were excited to be there and make grand things happen. It was much more exciting than a typical troop program.

[OldGreyEagle]

Touche Mike, Good point

 

I think the difference is a scout running for SPL can understand only one will win. If he runs and loses, thats life, I hope he can accept that. The issue that I have seen with AO elections is there is not a single winner. In our council a troop can elect as many eligible candidates as it wants. The only requirement is the scout must receive a majority of those voting. Some times all get in, sometimes a few dont. Its tough to explain to the gawky socially arkward kid that makes every outing and has scouiting skills galore that he isnt in the OA but a charismatic scout who just qualifies is. It is all in the presentation to the scouts before the election. As with many things, the OA is as good as the local volunteers make it. In my area thats not to good.

[yaworski]

"Some times all get in, sometimes a few dont. Its tough to explain to the gawky socially arkward kid that makes every outing and has scouiting skills galore that he isnt in the OA but a charismatic scout who just qualifies is."

 

We had an OA election right after I joined my troop. The person running it said that the Scouts should vote for those that they'd want to have along on a camping trip. Well, maybe they don't want the gawky, awkward kid along on camping trips.

 

Camping skills alone aren't enough to make others want to be with you. You have to be able to tell a story, laugh at jokes, etc..

 

OGE, your problem is that, by your own admission, ou were the fat kid with zits that everyone picked on so you believe that everyone should be included in everything. I was the skinny, smart kid with glasses and I worked hard at learning how to behave around other youngsters. What jokes are stupid, what other kids probably don't care about (the alloy used to make pennies is a good example), how to avoid driving off girls are all skills that the dorky among us have to learn.

 

If a kid wants to belong to a group, he needs to learn to fit in with that group.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Ah Yes Yaworski, how nice of you to remember the traumas of my youth, but also dont forget the part where I said I was going to make sure that no one had to endure what I did and by looking out for the new kids gained me a base that later allowed me to be elected Senior Patrol Leader.

 

So as hard as it is to beleive, I learned to overcome my handicaps and became almost normal. You would have an argument from my son on the normal part. Being excluded from a group is never easy, and while it may have to be accepted as a part of growing up, that doesnt mean I have to like it.

[sctmom]

Our political elections are popularity contests. Why did Nixon lose to Kennedy? Because Nixon looked bad on TV (or so I've been told, wasn't around..hehehe). Kennedy was good looking and represented what people wanted to be.

 

It's tough with kids to learn we don't always win. Just don't do like happened at my school one time, the teacher walked into the classroom after cheerleading tryouts and said "The following 3 girls did NOT make the squad." Well, thanks a lot, just put a big L on their heads okay. Yes, everyone would have known if the winners had been named, but that really lacked tact.

 

 

[yaworski]

"Being excluded from a group is never easy, and while it may have to be accepted as a part of growing up, that doesnt mean I have to like it."

 

It isn't something to like or dislike, it is something that simply is, similar to the nitrogen in the air that you breathe.

 

With the exception of the politically correct clubs in public schools, virtually all groups are exclusionary to some extent. Does it bother you that you can't take communion at an Orthodox church (assuming that you aren't Orthodox)? Does it bother you that you can't use the Congressional parking area at Dulles (I used to use it until they started cracking down on enforcement :-( ) What about the letterman's club in high school? The football team? It's not just a part of growing up, it is part of life.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually I got a varsity letter in Baseball, played catcher (tools of ignorance and all that)and an JV letter in Wrestling.

 

Maybe being exluded is part of life, still bothers me though, sorry but I just gotta be me

[DOOH]

Does it bother you that you can't take communion at an Orthodox church (assuming that you aren't Orthodox)?

BUT DOOH, YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE YOU CAN TAKE COMMUNION THERE!

What about the letterman's club in high school? The football team?

ONCE AGAIN YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE!

YOU HAVE TO BE ON THE TEAM TO GET THE LETER AND THAN THE WHOLE TEAM GETS A LETTER IF YOU OR GOOD OR NOT. IN THE SECERT ORGINIZAITON OF OA AND THE ABOVE EXAMPLE THE SCOUT THAT IS THE BEST SCOUT IS EXCLUDED AND ONLY THE SELECT FEW GET IN!

MARK MY WORDS IN 2 TO 3 YEARS OA WILL BE GONE FROM SCOUTING OR HIGHLY MODIFIED!

REMEMBER CHANGE IS GOOD!

[scomman]

Just a question as we are finally gonna have boys eligible for OA next year. How od they handle tapout and ordeal if the troop doesn't go to summer camp at the local scout camp. WE go to another camp every year that isn't affilated with the Boy Scouts.

[sst3rd]

DOOH,

 

Where did you come from? Oh yeah, your profile is empty. hmmmmmm. What could that mean?

 

 

EVERYONE ELSE,

 

Anyway, the Scouts and Scouters in the Lodge, make the Lodge. Our Lodge is not perfect, but does a great job of promoting the Brotherhood, Cheerfullness, and Service. We hold three Ordeals a year, a Fellowship in the fall (with the annual Banquet). All of the Committees are constantly recruiting the new members for their Committees, and training is available all of the time. Every annual election that our Troop holds, is preceded by a talk from one of our Chapter's Election Committee OA members. He not only explains the election process, but what the OA is, and what it has mean't to him since he became a member. It goes over well. I also say a few words about how important EACH vote cast is.

In reference to the popularity contest, shouldn't the point be about WHY a Scout is popular. Charisma is great, but can he start a fire, cook, save a life, stay calm if lost, swim, camp happily in the pouring rain, etc..

Over my many years of Scouting, I've been surprised often, as to who got elected. Remember, the Scoutmaster's approval is a requirement for a Scout to be nominated for the OA election.

Also remember, that until a few years ago, Scouts voting in the election (OA members and nonmembers of course) were limited in how many Scouts they could vote for, as it was directly related to how many Scouts were allowed to be nominated. Of course, now the Scouts can vote for as many as they wish. Frankly, I didn't like this change. The Scouts don't really have to think anymore. If in doubt, they vote for the Scout.

[yaworski]

Why are you shouting?

 

"YOU HAVE TO BE ON THE TEAM TO GET THE LETER AND THAN THE WHOLE TEAM GETS A LETTER IF YOU OR GOOD OR NOT."

 

No. There are criteria for earning a varsity letter in all but the most PC schools. Playing time, meets attended, etc.

 

"IN THE SECERT ORGINIZAITON OF OA AND THE ABOVE EXAMPLE THE SCOUT THAT IS THE BEST SCOUT IS EXCLUDED AND ONLY THE SELECT FEW GET IN!"

 

Who is to say that he is the best scout? His peers don't think so. Are we to take the word of his mommy?

 

"REMEMBER CHANGE IS GOOD!"

 

Hitler said the same thing.

[Mike Long]

Exclusion is part of life.

Losing is part of life.

Being very good at what you do and being passed over is part of life.

 

Should life be this way? Well, sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depends on the situation. It is a noble effort to want to provide the best for all and every opprotunity for all but not practical. It is better to teach the scouts how to create opprotunities instead of handing them out.

 

If it really bothers you that boys aren't elected do you sit down with the boys who aren't elected and discuss it with them? Ask them why they think they weren't elected and discuss things they can do to maybe get elected next time? Maybe there is an issue you don't see as an adult that the boys do.

 

Now if you think that the adults should appoint scouts to OA then you open the same exact can of worms. "Why not me Mr. Scoutmaster? Timmy is in and nobody thinks he's a good scout and no-one likes him either."

 

I am quite content to leave this in the hands of the youth.

 

DOOH is the same child that posts every now and then, usually incoherent. He posted the same sentiments a while back. Still sounds like sour grapes.

[Mike Long]

Exclusion is part of life.

Losing is part of life.

Being very good at what you do and being passed over is part of life.

 

Should life be this way? Well, sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depends on the situation. It is a noble effort to want to provide the best for all and every opprotunity for all but not practical. It is better to teach the scouts how to create opprotunities instead of handing them out.

 

If it really bothers you that boys aren't elected do you sit down with the boys who aren't elected and discuss it with them? Ask them why they think they weren't elected and discuss things they can do to maybe get elected next time? Maybe there is an issue you don't see as an adult that the boys do.

 

Now if you think that the adults should appoint scouts to OA then you open the same exact can of worms. "Why not me Mr. Scoutmaster? Timmy is in and nobody thinks he's a good scout and no-one likes him either."

 

I am quite content to leave this in the hands of the youth.

 

DOOH is the same child that posts every now and then, usually incoherent. He posted the same sentiments a while back. Still sounds like sour grapes.