Scout uniform at fundraisers???

[BuffaloSR793]

Recently our Troop held a fundraiser to help our boys earn money for summer camp. We are a relatively new Troop, started Jan 09 and have not had the chance to sell popcorn or do many fundraising events. Some of the boys are mowing yards to pay for camp.

 

I inquired to our local council about wearing uniforms during non district or council santioned fundraising events. I was informed that only the Activity/Class B uniforms were allowed. We followed our local councils recommendation.

 

This was a simple hot dog/hamburer sale at a local hardware chain. We had our Troop flag, American flag and a Troop sign. The Scouts wore their activity shirts. I however still feel that we should be proud to wear our uniforms to promote Scouting in the local community.

 

I would appreciate opinions on when the dress/Class A uniform is not appropriate.

 

Thank you in advance

 

 

[scoutldr]

Your council is following National policy. Reason is that BSA does not want to lend its image/brand to commercial products...except Popcorn. Rules for fundraising are on the Unit Fundraising approval form that have to be filed with your Council.

[Eamonn]

Our District Chairman and myself were only talking about this earlier this week.

The rules seem a little confusing to me. But then again I'm easily confused.

It's not so much a matter of when. It's more about what!

The BSA has some commercial (Not a lot! Mainly Trails End Popcorn.) Products that it endorses.

So for example two Troops want to do a hoagie sale.

Troop 1 calls Joe's Subs and orders the hoagies for he sale.

Troop 1 can't wear their uniforms.

Troop 2 makes the hoagies. They can wear their uniforms.

The information that you received from the Council was 100% wrong!

Wrong because you were not selling a commercial product (Unless of course you had a big sign saying that Frank's Hot-Dogs were sponsoring the sale)

And wrong because a uniform is a uniform, selling any commercial product in any BSA uniform would be wrong. It makes no difference if it's the field uniform or the activity uniform, if it in any way might be seen that the product being sold could be taken for a product that was being endorsed by Scouts or the BSA, no part of the uniform should be worn.

Having said that.

The truth is that the rule gets so misunderstood that no one really understands it and in most cases is just ignored.

Eamonn.

 

 

[scoutldr]

Eamonn is of course correct. I overlooked the fact that you were making the food. Of course that opens up a whole can of worms with local ordinances regarding vendor permits and health department regulations.

[Liz]

Perhaps the problem with the uniform is that the fund raiser was at a local hardware chain. It might be seen as promoting the chain.

 

If you were making and selling burgers-n-dogs in a public park it might be different?

 

-Liz

[Hal_Crawford]

A couple of things:

To my knowledge there is no officially sanctioned class B scout uniform. You are either in uniform (class A) or you're not. The various activity shirts, polo shirts and tee shirts (BSA or troop) are not a uniform. The best term I could come up with for them is logo-wear.

 

Definitely check with your local health department, comply with their license/inspection requirements and figure any permits into the cost of your operation. It is better than being shut down and/or having to pay a fine. In all likelihood they will send someone to make sure that hot food is hot enough and that food requiring refrigeration is cold enough. If you tell them in advance exactly what you want to do they should be able to tell you exactly what you need to do and there will be no surprises. If you are really lucky, the guy at the health department will be an Eagle scout.

 

G'luck,

Hal

[scoutldr]

And if the public is really, REALLY lucky, the fact that the health department guy is an Eagle Scout will have no bearing on him enforcing the laws. ;0>

[Eagle92]

Hal,

There is and official activity uniform that was created and discarded in the 1990s. it consisted of the one of two polo shirts red for Scouts, tan for varsity and a maroon for Scouts in a Venture Crew now called a patrol. they were regulation, was supposed be used in all outdoor activities, including camp ceremonies, btu were never popular.

[Beavah]

Yah, Buffalo, you were raisin' money for your scout troop, right? It wasn't goin' into the boys' pockets in any way, right?

 

Then wear your uniform with pride.

 

Beavah

 

[BuffaloSR793]

I appreciate the insight. The boys were cooking the food, handling the $$, while also assisting store customers unload their shopping carts.

 

The $$ goes directly into each Scout's Troop account, no cash directly into pockets. We based the amount each Scout received by the total profit divided by #of Scouts and hours worked. It will get used for Scout camp.

 

I would think the National Council would want Troops to be in uniform at most every function to promote Scouting. As Scoutmaster, I consider myself lucky to have a bunch of boys who love to wear the uniform every chance they get.

[CalicoPenn]

Every year, I go to a local music festival where many people come to get instruction on playing their instruments from active performers, and many people come only to listen to folks performing. Every year, there is a Boy Scout Troop selling food, that they make, to the crowd. They're always pretty busy.

 

None of them wear their uniforms - they all wear a red t-shirt with the unit's number on it and non-scout pants. Everyone knows exactly who they are and every one knows this is a fundraiser for this Troop, not for the BSA (I've overheard people say they won't donate to the Boy Scouts of America but will buy food from this group because the money supports this group of boys, this Troop, this visible presence - leads me to think people are quite capable of separating the policies of the BSA and the local units on the ground).

 

If a unit is serving up food, it makes a lot more sense to have a t-shirt/polo shirt arrangement which the lads can get dirty than an official uniform.

[evmori]

You need ask for approval to wear your uniforms during fundraising. This can be approved at the Council level.

[Beavah]

You need ask for approval to wear your uniforms during fundraising.

 

Nah, I'd go at this da other way, eh?

 

You own your uniform. You bought and paid money for it and have the right to wear it, just like any other name brand piece of clothing you purchased.

 

Under the law, it's up to the BSA to object if it feels it can demonstrate that the context in which you are wearin' it constitutes misrepresentation and infringes on a trademark or other limited grant of exclusivity.

 

Wear your uniform until told not to. Then take off the uniform and cease your FOS donations.

 

Beavah

 

[OldGreyEagle]

from the UNIT MONEY-EARNING APPLICATION document #34427

 

GUIDES TO UNIT MONEY-EARNING PROJECTS number 6 states:

 

6. If a commercial product is to be sold, will the

fund-raising activity comply with BSA policy on

wearing the uniform?

 

The official uniform is intended to be worn primarily

for use in connection with Scouting activities.

However, council executive boards may approve

use of the uniform for any fund-raising activity.

Typically, council popcorn sales or Scout show

ticket sales are approved uniform fund-raisers.

 

OK, so there wasn't a commerical product sold, so does that this make the item null and void except for when commercial items are sold?. The answer references that the Council Executive Board may approve the use of the uniform for any fund-raising activity so its "possible" to get permission.

 

A question on the Unit Money Earning Application reads:

 

Will your members be in uniform while carrying out this project? (See items 36 on other side.)

 

So, it seems like a question if you like to follow the rules or not. If you fill out a Money Earning Application, you have to declare upfront if you want to wear the uniform or not. If you say you will wear the uniform and get told no, you can't you have to look to the seventh point of the scout law and decide what to wear

 

You can ignore the unit money earning application and wear the uniform and then beg forgiveness if you get caught.

 

What lessons do we wish to teach our youth?

 

[Eamonn]

OGE,

I sat on our Council Executive Board for about ten years.

Never once did was a Unit asking for permission to wear uniforms brought up at a meeting.

I think most of the guys in suits might have a hard time knowing a reason why not to allow it.

 

It was a super nice day here last Saturday.

The fuel pump on one of my tractors went bad.

I had to run into town.

Troop 160 was selling hoagies.

Most of the Scouts were in uniforms.

I looked at these kids and was pleased to see that they were out and about and in their way letting people know that Scouts and Scouting are alive and well in our area.

I of course bought a hoagie.

I drove to the other end of town and a group was outside the local supermarket having a car wash.

I had no idea who this group was, a group of kids in jeans and t-shirts. - It turned out they were they were the HS Varsity Cheer leaders.

I had to run into Wal-Mart. Some nice looking young girls had coffee cans they they stuck under my nose. They were the girls softball team from the community next door.

As I say I did buy a hoagie which I didn't need, I did get not the best car wash ever, but I bu-passed the coffee can waving softball players.

Of the 3 groups I felt that the little lads in Scout uniform seemed more worthy of my $6.00 than all the others.

I'm not sure if selling hoagies should be seen as a Scouting activity or not?

Heck, it seems that I'm not sure what is and what isn't a Scout uniform?

I'm sure that the Lads selling the hoagies don't know that there is any sort of a rule, I'm not sure if the adults do or not?

I think it's kinda sad that so many units feel that they don't trust the council enough and feel that completing the money earning application is maybe in someway opening the door for the council to come in and get in their way.

Lets be honest when it comes to doing things as they should be done some Councils pick and choose what rules will be enforced and when they will be enforced.

Councils routinely have fund raising events which involve games of chance, alcohol present where young scouts are present.

These are the guys that are supposed to know better?

We are supposed to seek their permission for a little Lad to sell a hoagie in his nice new uniform that he is so very proud of?

If the BSA wants to say "No uniforms should be worn at unit fund raising events" Then that would be the rule that we could all understand.

What we have now?

Maybe is worth ignoring?

Eamonn.