SctDad Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I was talking to one of our committee memebrs and they were approached by a coworker at the Corrections Center. The Coworker wanted to have his motorcycle club help out with a fundraiser. What I was thinking was a "Send a Cub To Camp" ride to help to send the boys to our summer encampment this year. Have them organize a ride through town and use the funds towards the cost of camp. Now I know that there is a statment on the back of the Money earning application that says that boys should earn their own way, so I was thinking about setting up a lunch and activities at the end of the ride. Before anyone asks this would be a stict NO ALCOHOL EVENT. I just know that with the way we have a lot of people wanting to ride motorcycles around here in the spring and stuff, I thought that this woudl be a good idea. There is nothing on the Money earning application that says anything about this specifically. I am just looking for some pointers. (As s side note, I am in the emergency services field and I am very aware of the unlawful motorcycle clubs, and have been trained on how to identify them. Just so that everyone is aware of my standings. That is also another reason why I am looking for advice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 What would be the product or service you would be offering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank10 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 The product is admission to the event. Same as going to see a movie, you pay to get in. Sounds like a good idea, contact your local Blue Knights, Red Nights, Wild Pigs, GoldWing Touring Association, Goldwing Road Riders Association.... There's a lot of family men (and women) riding in these clubs that would be a good fit for your event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Could be a good fundraiser! Let us know how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Before you contact any bike club first submit your Unit Money Earning application with details of your proposed event to the council. Since this would be a scout sponsored event the BSA would be responsible for providing insurance for the event, and since there is neither a product or service offered do not be surprised if they reject the proposal. Keep in mind that does not mean that the event cannot take place, it means that you cannot connect Scouting (or the scout unit) to the event in anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SctDad Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 BW The boys would be doing a cook out style lunch for the riders. There is going to be no boys riding on motorcycles so where does the insurance come in at. Just asking because I am trying to figure this whole thing out. But if not, maybe we can have them do the ride for the AL post youth summer camp program, or something like that. Or say that the Amer Leg is holding the ride for the scouts, as a send a cub to summer camp. Then we can also share some of the money with the legion How does that souund if the council denies it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 You do not seem to understand that uynless the council approves it you cannot use Scouting in any aspect of the event. the Legion cannot even say that the event is to send a Cub Scout to camp. They can say that the funds will be used to ward the Legion's youth program, but they cannot use the names or images of any part of the BSA programs in the planning promotion, event, or follow up. You must have the permission of the council on a Unit Moneey eraning application in order to relate this to scouting at ANY level or in ANY way. I really doubt that this "event" will qualify. There is no product or service being offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Bob, why'd you put "event" in quotes? Is it not an "event"? Quotes are used to indicate that something isn't what it is supposed to be. For example, if the footrace at the family get-together is rigged so the youngest grandchild wins, you might say "The grandchildren all 'raced' and little Tommy won." See how that works? In any event, Bob, you just don't understand how motorcyclists minds work. The ride is the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Good point GW. The ride is the product! The application isn't restrictive as to the type of product. Hope this goes well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank10 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 BW, Would it make more sense to you if it was a classic car show? Or a haunted house? The organizers of an event are providing a real service. Many times I have paid my $10 to get in when the money was going to business never mind a non-profit. To top it off, half the time we also had to bring a toy to donate too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 How motorcyclists think or don't think is not the issue. What matters in this case are the fundraising rules for scout units set by the BSA. Riding a motorcycle is an activity not a product, and not a service. An organized motorcycle ride is an "event". And if the event is being hosted by a Scout unit then it is in violation of the BSA fundraising policies since units must offer a product or service. Riding something is not a product. Riding your own something is not a service. A scout unit cannot hold a fundraising "event" since they cannot p[rovide insurance for those in participation or in attendance. An outside organization cannot hold a fundraiser for a scout unit without the approval of the local scout office. Without that approval they cannot mention scouting, the scout unit, or use scouting terms or images, for the promotion of the event or during the event. You need to complete the Unit Money Earning Application and it must be approved by the local council or you cannot connect scouting to the "event" in any way. Those are the rules. Rather than work so hard to rationalize something that is not allowed why noty just do one of the activities that is allowed? Just offer an actual product or service that meets the BSA regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Entertainment is a product. The service is the providing the venue for the entertainment. Think outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SctDad Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 BW "Rather than work so hard to rationalize something that is not allowed why noty just do one of the activities that is allowed? Just offer an actual product or service that meets the BSA regulations." Because there are only so many people in our little rural county that can buy popcorn and other traditional fundraisers. I was trying to find something that would reach a different demographic of supporters that approached us to help out. By your definition the motorcycle ride 'event' is not an approved method or 'product.' This, by what you are telling me, would disqualify the event event even though they would have the entertainment and fellowship among riders. So whould we go out and start telling scout groups that they cannot have haunted hayrides, haunted houses, or corn mazes. No matter how much they bring in and depend on them. These are all things that provide entertainment, but no product.(This message has been edited by SctDad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank10 Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 It's not like you pay your fee and then set off on your own for an hour ride. Organizers supply a starting point, Parade permit, Closed course and police escort, ending point with DJ and food (or food vendors), sometimes a Tshirt is included or available, Bike show, trophies for best in show, farthest from home, best paint job..., Oldest bike, oldest rider. And that's just for a small "event". Take it up a notch and you have local bike shops with demo rides, Leather shop selling jackets, Swap shop area, Lawyer giving out all sorts of goodies with his name and number on it, Rider Ed programs... Think county fair for bikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 The policies and regulations for how units can raise money and how the name and images of the BSA can be used are not determined by how much "fun and fellowship" is had by the participants. It is doubtful that a unit sponsored event such as a hayrack ride or haunted house would be approved by a Council Scout Executive. A unit has no way of insuring such an event. It would have to be done by another organization and it is doubtful that a council would allow the proceeds to be used for just one unit within the council. It would be surprising to find that such an event was approved by a council for a unit fundraiser. (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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