Donation Jar Ban

[Bob White]

To answer Its Me's questions

"Would asking my company for some money for troop tents be a violation of the don't ask no donation policy?"

 

You may not solicite donations for the unit without an exchange of product or services

 

"If I ask for a discount for a trip or for rental equipment is that a donation?"

 

You may not solicites donations for a unit without exchanges of a product or service. In addition the unit has no authority to sign a contract on behalf ofthe unit or the BSa. Only the council has that authority.

 

"So in this game of don't ask, no donation policy comes down to the legal definition of who talks first. But if I show up in uniform am I announcing I am a scouter? Did I speak first in that situation?"

 

It comes down to the rule that you CANNOT SOLICITE DONATIONS WITHOUT EXCHANGING A PRODUCT OR SERVICE.

 

Telling someone you need to by lumber for a church project is not soliciting it is purchasing. If the company offers to give you a discount because of the nature of the project that is not soliciting that is a business chaoice that the lumber company chose to make.

 

ASKING FOR THE DISCOUNT is soliciting. If in asking for the discoutn you use the name or image of Scouting then you are in violation of BSA fundraising policies.

 

"But its ok if the donation jar is hidden behind the counter. It can be pulled out when the other guy first mentions the word donation."

 

It is soilicting! It is simply holding out your hand and begging for mony. it is a violation of the BSA fundraising popicies for units. In addition it is lazy and embarrasing. You have a group of young people who you are supposed to be teaching better values to. Go work for your income and stop begging as if they were helpless street urchins.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[cubdadinnj]

I did know this -- is there info on the BSA site about this? Couldn't find this with a quick search.

 

My specific question being -- would this impact a "donate now" link on the troop site?

 

Thx /p

[Bob White]

Yes, it would impact it. On a unit web site that would be prohibited since a unit is required to offer a quality product or service in exchange. Scout units MUST offer a product or service in exchange.

[evmori]

As for evmori's question, I block his posts, for obvious reasons, which is why I do not know or answer his questions.

 

'Nuff said!

 

Hey Billy, take that fiver that man gave you & give it back to him! Tell him we can't use his money!

[ManyHats]

I'd like to add another scenario...

Cub Scout graduation banquet

If you don't charge for the meal, but put out a donation jar, is that a violation too. You aren't asking the general public and they are receiving food whether or not they put anything in the jar.

[RememberSchiff]

The units that I have served, have accepted donations with gratitude and without any drama. Often a donations jar is in place at the entrance for the spaghetti dinners. No complaints from Council execs who attended.

 

Not asking for "scout discount" is just foolish, a scout is thrifty. Our council website lists businesses that offer scout discounts to scouts who are in uniform or show their BSA ID card. Eastern Mountain Sports offers a 20% "scout discount" to scouts twice a year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

A business that chooses to market a discount in order to attract the scouting community to shop there is very different from as scout unit asking for a discount simply to use the image of Scouting as a way to extract a discount from the business.

 

If the business wants to offer you a discount let it be unsoicited from you.

 

Units are expected to teach scouts how to earn their own way, and to set and follow a budget. The unit should be setting that example. Why is it so difficult to understand or to act according to the rules. Scout units cannot solicite donations but must exchange a product or service.

 

One would think that we were an organization of millions of young people unable to obtain supplies by earning their own way.

 

Many Hats

Exchanging donations for recieving a product is not against any BSA regulation.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

If the business wants to offer you a discount let it be unsoicited from you.

 

Taking funds without exchanging it for a product or service is a violation of the BSA money earning policies for units.

 

Which is it?

[Gold Winger]

"If the business wants to offer you a discount let it be unsoicited from you."

 

How are we supposed to know if we don't ask?

 

I don't know where you live BeeDubya, but a disount and a donation are not the same thing, if they were the discount would have to be reported on somebody's tax forms and they aren't.

 

But its ok if the donation jar is hidden behind the counter. It can be pulled out when the other guy first mentions the word donation.

 

"It is soilicting! It is simply holding out your hand and begging for mony. it is a violation of the BSA fundraising popicies for units. "

 

Once again, where is the solicitation? The guy says, "I'd like to give you some money" and you say "I have a special container. . ."

 

BeeDubya, other than one vague statement on a BSA form, you haven't offered much from BSA policy other than your own interpretations of that vague statement. Maybe you have access to the secret and hidden tomes of BSA Rules and Regulations.

[OldGreyEagle]

I found the following on the BSA website

 

"Paying your own way. This is a fundamental principle of the Boy Scouts of America. It is one of the reasons why no solicitations (requests for contributions from individuals or the community) are permitted by Cub Scout packs"

 

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/packbudget.aspx

 

 

Now, this does say specifically "Cub Packs" but does anyone want to argue that the rules for a Troop, Ship, Crew, etc would be different?

 

[Gold Winger]

"What I got from Council was that in order to maintain 501 © 3 status, Scouts could not just sell stuff."

 

That just flies in the face of reason. Churches just sell stuff, sure they have their big fund raising rummage sales but just about every church has a bookstore and they "just sell stuff."

 

Or was that a typo?

 

" their soliciting donations in any way or form endangers/negates non-profit status."

 

Non-profit and charitable are two different things but let's assume that you meant charitable. Find me a charitable organization that doesn't solicit donatations. If you did mean non-profit that refers to the corporate structure of an organization and I've been on the boards of a few and we always solicited donations. We had lawyers, accountants and even IRS agents involved and no one ever said "boo" about calling up Harry's lumber yard and saying, "Gold Wing of America is building a clubhouse, can you donate some lumber?" Harry would say, "Sure, just put up a sign mentioning me."

 

I'd be willing to be that no one at council really knows the answer, they're just making things up.

[OldGreyEagle]

I found this

 

http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/9910/a-ksmp.html

 

OK, its a little dated, but it does make the case you must give something of value and you can't do raffles.

 

 

I was reviewing the thread and saw Infoscouters post on the first page about the Cub Scout pack link that I thought was the definitive answer, and wondered, just what is the argument about? A scout unit can't ask for a donation, what is the issue here, I am not catching it.(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

[Gold Winger]

There's very little debate going on here, OGE. BeeDubya is just being his normal obstinate self.

[Bob White]

The problem is neither you or me OGE. The problem is the tendancy of some people to look for ways to break or ingore rules that they do not like, or that are inconveniently incompatable to what they want to be allowed to do.

[Gold Winger]

No BeeDubya, the problem is that only you know what the rules are but you won't open your grimoire for others to read.