Donations and Sponsors

[Pack283]

As we start a new year and plan for our popcorn sale kickoff, we are thinking of asking local businesses if they would like to sponsor our fund raising effort by supplying door prizes and incentive gifts specific to our unit.

 

While I know units are not permitted to solicit donations, is it acceptable to ask for local sponsors of our events? Besides the popcorn sale, I'd like to get some businesses to sponsor our Pinewood derby and Blue & Gold.

 

This subject came up when my new Popcorn Kernel told me he was asking local businesses to help out with our Popcorn Kickoff. One business asked for an official letter with our tax id number on it and Wal Mart has an application form which requires the tax id as well.

 

Can anyone tell me what we can and can do in this regard or point me to any information pertaining to this?

 

Thanks

[Gold Winger]

I may be wrong but the prohibition is on soliciting monetary donations. I'm pretty sure that asking for door prizes and such is allowed since I used to do that and our District Commissioner was also on the Troop Committee.

 

Never had to provide a tax ID, even for Wal-Mart, just a letter on troop letterhead.

[Bob White]

Soliciting donations at the unit level is a violation of the BSA money earning Policies.

 

Accepting donation is not a problem, asking for them is.

 

If the unit wants to supply addition prizes to those offered by the council or popcorn distributor than they should be purchased by the unit from the proceeds of the sale.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Gold Winger]

From the BSA money earning application

 

"The BSA Rules and Regulations state, Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for their chartered organizations, for the local council, or in support of other organizations. Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events.

 

 

If they wanted to prohibit solicitation of money and goods they would have said that.

 

As for popcorn prizes, Bob might have a point there but there are other reasons to solicit items for prizes. Door prizes for the annual dinner and prizes for patrol competitions come to mind.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[click23]

As for the tax ID number, in most states units need to use the ID number for the chartering organization, but others, I believe New York is one, require that you use the ID number of the local council.

[Beavah]

Hi Pack283. Welcome to the forums, and good job thinkin' big and tryin' to have an exciting and well-funded program this year.

 

GoldWinger is right, eh? The printed restriction is on solicitin' money for the troop. Here's the way to understand it. Good people at your district and council need to go out to businesses and "higher net worth" individuals in your area in order to ask for money for community Friends of Scouting, to support your council and all its programs. If you go to Joe's Ice Cream Parlor and ask for $50 or 20 gallons of ice cream, Joe might be happy to give it.

 

Now along comes your district chair and district exec, who know Joe's Ice Cream makes a lot of money a year and likes to support local youth programs. They want to get a $5000 donation out of the business as part of supportin' CubWorld for your pack and others. But Joe tells him "we already gave to Scouting this year - 20 gallons of ice cream to the Cub Scouts!"

 

That's what you want to avoid, eh? Also think of it in terms of the businesses and how it feels. If yeh live in a bigger town, a youth-friendly business might get solicited by a number of packs, and troops, and crews. Pretty soon it sure feels to them like they're bein' nickeled-and-dimed to death by Scouting, and Scouting seems to always "want something." That's not good either, eh?

 

We need to be courteous and respectful to our local businesses and our colleagues at the council who are raisin' money. If you do that, then I reckon you will be fine. Easiest way is to do as BobWhite suggests, eh? Otherwise, it's bein' mindful of who you are solicitin' and coordinating with your district and council.

 

Of course, nothing stops your CO from soliciting for its youth programs, especially from its own membership.

 

Beavah

 

 

[Bob White]

Youth and adults at the unit level are prohibited from seeking direct donations of funds. Asking for material donations is the same as asking for the money to buy them.

 

Check with your local council regarding solicitation rules and policies.

 

If you need door priyes or any other materials through the year why not budget for them? It's a bonus when something is offered to you at discounted price but, we are an organization of millions of youth and adults who are perfectly capable of providing a product or service to raise the money we need to support out programs.

 

It is not necessary to beg hat-in-hand when we can earn our way.

 

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

" Asking for material donations is the same as asking for the money to buy them."

 

That's not the way it is written. So, according to you we are supposed to go with the interpretations of the professionals? But wait, in another thread, you were telling us to ignore the interpretations of the professionals. Which is it? The written word or the interpretations of professionals? I'm confused but you seem to be confused as well.

 

"If you need door priyes or any other materials through the year why not budget for them?"

 

Because people like to help, especially businesses which can consider it an advertising expense if not a charitable donation.

[evmori]

Asking for material donations is the same as asking for the money to buy them.

 

No it isn't! Life Scout working on their Eagle Project do it all the time! In fact, it is encouraged! And the Unit Money Earning application doesn't address asking for material donations.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Pack283]

This discussion is great and I really appreciate your feedback.

 

So, here is my take on it after reading your comments and doing a little research. I do not think having the unit solicit for goods or especially funds is appropriate, but I do think we can approach local businesses and ask them if they would like to be involved in our events. A lot of businesses have branded items like pens, pencils, magnets, etc. that would be great to pass out to the boys and their parents. At the same time, if a business wants to donate some funds on their own, I have no problem accepting it.

 

For the Blue & Gold we go to some of the local markets and restaurants to get prices on large amounts of items like fried chicken or pies or whatever. We tell them who we are and what we're doing up front and we typically get a discount or in some cases donated extras like cups and napkins. I think this is perfectly acceptable. I also think its acceptable for me to approach our local sporting goods store (also a big District sponsor) and ask them if they have any overstock or closeout items we could get a jump on for a good deal. Maybe they are having a closeout sale on fishing rods in a couple of weeks, but for the Cub Scouts, they'll give us a deal on a couple this week.

 

I don't feel like I'm going to these places with my hand out, but rather I'm giving them an opportunity to be involved with our program and get their name in front of our parents and kids. If they give us a discount, I will graciously send them a letter thanking them. If they go over and above that, I'll send them an engraved plaque from the Scout Shop. I've seen a lot of plaques from other units in the district on the walls of pizza shops and other local businesses so I'm certainly not alone.

 

We approached an ambulance company to give the boys a safety talk and tour of their facilities. They said any time and also handed us a box of pencils, pens, band-aid dispensers and flash lights with their company brand on them as well as a $100 check. Completely unsolicited.

 

Thanks again.

[infoscouter]

From the National Council web site -

 

Will the fund-raising project avoid soliciting money or gifts? The BSA Rules and Regulations state, "Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for their chartered organizations, for the local council, or in support of other organizations. Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money in support of personal or unit participation in local, national, or international events."For example: Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts and leaders should not identify themselves as Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts or as a troop/pack participate in The Salvation Army's Christmas Bell Ringing program. This would be raising money for another organization. At no time are units permitted to solicit *contributions* for unit programs. (emphasis added)

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/packbudget.aspx

 

Also from the same source:

 

Some Important Points:

Paying your own way. This is a fundamental principle of the Boy Scouts of America. It is one of the reasons why no solicitations (requests for contributions from individuals or the community) are permitted by Cub Scout packs. Young people in Scouting are taught early on that if they want something in life, they need to earn it. This principle is among the reasons that adults who were Scouts are found to have higher incomes. The finance plan of any pack should include participation by a Cub Scout in a regular dues plan.

 

An annual pack participation fee, too often completely contributed by parents, does little to teach a boy responsibility. **The unit's entire budget must be provided for by the families, either through fund-raising or other means such as dues or fees.** (Again emphasis added).

 

"No BSA member, unit or local council may enter into a contract or relationship of a commercial nature involving the BSA unless duly authorized to do so by the National Executive Board." Cub Scout Leader Book, p. 8-2.

 

A sponsorship, in which a unit implies approval of a particular business, is a "relationship of a commercial nature". The business is receiving something in return for their contribution of goods or services - the goodwill of the Scouts and their parents and the *implied* endorsement of that business by the unit.

 

The problem is that you, as a unit leader, or the BSA have no control over what that business does with our good name. You give the business a plaque or a certificate. The business owner hangs the item on their wall and gives the community the impression that "he's a good guy - he supported the Scouts". Then he proceeds to break the law, or run his business unethically, or gets closed down for health or OSHA violations. What damage has the implied relationship done to the reputation of the BSA? You may have plastered the business name all over your pack meeting, thanking them for the contributions, etc. What impression have you created with the parents in the pack? "Don't these people know enough not to do business with bums like that?"

 

Another consideration - you start doing this. You go to Roundtable and tout it as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Another unit leader who isn't as savvy as you approaches the local smoke shop or liquor store for similar assistance. We know those are not businesses we want to seem to endorse, for the health of our Scouts. What have you (inadvertantly) contributed to?

 

The Unit Money Earning Application is the council's tool to determine if we're supporting ourselves in a manner consistent with the values of the BSA. We are like Caesar's wife - we must be above suspicion. Stepping into the muddy waters of sponsorship runs the risk of soiling our toga

 

[Gold Winger]

" We know those are not businesses we want to seem to endorse, for the health of our Scouts."

 

A coderate monsumption of alchohol has been found to be hood for your gealth. Hic.

[Beavah]

Yah, I agree with infoscouter's central point, eh? Business "sponsorship" of a unit in the way that term is generally used is somethin' that shouldn't be pursued by most units. Just not the way we do business.

 

I think we should also be a bit careful about overstatin' things, though.

 

Boys don't really pay their own way in Scouting, especially in cubs. Councils solicit money from donors for facilities, activities, camperships, and ScoutReach. Kids of cub age can't legally earn money on their own except for what their parents give 'em, so cub pack costs are comin' from the family. Not all families can afford those costs, especially single-parent families or families where a parent has lost a job or whatnot. We do care for those kids and families, so solicitin' funds on their behalf is just fine, eh? It is an act of charity, of being Loyal and Kind and Helpin' other people at all times.

 

So it's best we don't get too boisterous about trumpetin' "pay your own way" or "fundraisers must offer value" or "not trade off the Scout name". Anybody looked at da cost of popcorn lately? . It's fine and right and good Scoutin' for a unit to recruit resources from the CO and community to provide a Scouting program to families who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it. Such things also increase the positive connections between Scoutin' and the community when done right. People are proud of their contributions and connections to Scoutin', and that's what we want as an organization. Units should just be mindful of propriety and treadin' on the council's turf, eh?

 

I wouldn't get my shorts in a bundle over "implied" endorsements either, eh? That to my mind is a bit of a red herring. FOS takes donations from almost all comers, and sends them various thank you notes or invites 'em to banquets and such. We don't vet or run investigatory checks on our donors in the BSA. If it later turns out they're a front for the mob, we're just another customer or community member that got surprised.

 

The Unit Money Earnin' Application is like any legal or pseudo-legal document, eh? It's written to grab as much power, authority, and money as it can for its author, to "protect its interests" when there is a dispute. Reality on the ground is often a lot more balanced and less draconian. Kids solicit funds for other organizations all the time for Eagle Scout service projects and other things. Businesses and units often establish partnerships and workin' relationships. And Scouts almost never truly pay their own way . The BSA really can't stop a CO from solicitin' funds for its youth programs, nor would it want to. Strong units and good working relationships between Scouting and the community are in our long-term best interest. That's what really generates goodwill, name recognition, and FOS donations.

 

Bein' mindful of a few pitfalls so as to avoid 'em is a good thing. But best not to get too tied up by the language on a form which is meant to be a helpful service.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

Beavahs philosophy of 'play the game but don't let the rules get in the way' is not a well thought out way to deliver the program.

 

 

[Beavah]

LOL!

 

Yah, I don't reckon there's a philosophy there, BobWhite, beyond bein' a bit humble so as not to always be tellin' other people what they should be doin'.

 

Beavah