venture patrol gear and funds?

[Lisabob]

From time to time our troop has had a viable venture patrol, though in the past they haven't been terribly successful at maintaining such a patrol. We're in the latest iteration with a bunch of younger guys (all 1st Cl, ages 13-17) who are a little more active (think backpacking and maybe a big high adventure trip in the next couple of years).

 

After their first backpacking weekend they came to realize that they lack appropriate gear. Our larger troop is primarily a car camping troop. So the troop has large patrol boxes, 2-burner coleman stoves, heavy tents, etc.. None of the boys owns backpacking tents or pack stoves.

 

There's some talk about who should be responsible for buying backpacking gear. One line of thought is that the individuals who plan to use it should buy it, perhaps using funds raised through our regular fundraisers (from which the profits already go straight to the boys' accounts). Another line of thought is that if the troop wants to support a venture patrol, the troop should help fund the purchase of this equipment, just as the troop funds the purchase of car-camping gear.

 

Then there's the question of whether the boys in the VP, who are also in "regular" patrols, should or could do a separate fund raiser of their own just for VP needs and if so, who really owns any equipment purchased with that money - troop or boys?

 

I'd like your input into how you see this and/or how you handle this sort of thing. Backpacking gear is expensive! So this will take some planning no matter how we do it.

[Bob White]

Not all backpacking gear has to be expensive. A large part of learning backpacking is about cutting back on what you take, and making what you take smaller and lighter, much of which can be done with the equipment they currently have.

 

In many units scouts are responsible for personal equipment and the unit takes resoponnsibility for group equipment. In backpacking group equipment often comes down to tents and stoves, and everything else is personal gear.

 

Depending on the type of tentage used by the troop it may work just fine for now. The scouts may need to relearn how to distribute the weight to so that one person doesn't carry the entire tent, and learn to leave other things behind do that the existing tents can be carried comfortably.

 

Reliable backpack stoves and fuel bottle are not that expensive and if cared for properly will last the unit well past the membership of these scouts for use by others.

 

Why not have the scouts put a budget together after they get some more training, and let the PLC and committee determine who should be responsible for what equipment and how the money should be obtained?

[Lisabob]

Bob, you've hit upon the questions/issues precisely. The current troop tents don't work very well as backpacking tents, even split up. They are too big and cumbersome (even split up) and right now all but one of the boys in the VP are small-ish 13 year olds. There is also the fact that right now our troop is at the outer limit of our equipment capability, due to the influx of a much larger than normal group of new scouts. So if the VP uses troop tents and the troop uses troop tents, that means more wear/tear and less time between uses to fix any minor repair issues.

 

The troop doesn't have any backpack stoves and neither do the boys in question. Should they buy their own? Should the troop provide them?

 

As I am on the troop committee and I know that this issue will come up at next week's troop committee meeting, I am looking for people's input into how they have made similar decisions (the ups and downs, things to consider, etc.).

[Ohio_Scouter]

Lisabob,

 

Our troop has a fairly active Venture Patrol and high adventure program for our older scouts as well as a car-camping program for our younger scouts. Our position is that the Troop funds all non-personal equipment for all scouts irregardless.

 

We understand that high adventure and backpacking gear can be expensive given the need for lightweight tents, backpacking stoves, water purifiers, caving gear, climbing harnesses, helmets, ropes, descenders, ascenders, etc. We encourage our scouts to acquire their own backpack, sleeping bag, pad, personal first-aid kit, and other personal gear that they might want to acquire on their own.

 

We are fortunate in that our Troop has found ways through various fund raisers to generate several thousand dollars each year to support such programs. In our case, the Troop owns all the Troop-acquired gear and, with committee authorization, replaces it whenever it wears out, or when new gear is required.

[anarchist]

Lisabob,

 

as the old joke about the economist goes...."well on one hand...and then, on the other hand...."

 

It really depends on the troop, the finances and the boy's own drive. For years our high adventure activities were catch as catch can...tents (eureka timberline XTs) were divided between two boys (main tent body to one scout, poles fly and stakes to the other) or they used light weight dining flys and bug nets were used instead of tents. Seasons and activities were selected to allow for use of minimal sleeping gear (say a blanket or thin sheet and a pad)as well as minimal extra clothes. Meals were spartan, generally one pot or cold/no fire meals...sometimes MREs and military chemical "heaters".

 

Some boys soon bought their own bivy tents or ultra light tents...Over the years cooking was done over wood fires, then homemade stoves, then peak or coleman single burners...then a few dads started lending white gas high tech camping stoves and eventually the troop started purchasing its own high adventure equipment...but it was several years of "making do" before we had most of what we wanted.

 

There was also alot of budgeting, increased fund raising efforts and a whole lot of "lobbying" the PLC and the troop committee. Some folks have to be seriously motivated to "give up" another three or four weekends and/or evenings to raise more money as well as raising annual troop dues significantly to buy gear their kids might not use....

 

If your boys do fund raising in the name of the troop or simply as boy scouts...I am betting most posters here would say the equipment would belong to the troop....If on the other hand (see ;>) the boys did chores for neighbors so they could buy their own gear "out-side of scouting", then it would belong to the boys individually...The test for me would be whether the scouts "played up" being scouts when asking for work/chores or just told "good ol' Mr. Wilson" they were painting his fence for extra money to buy stuff they wanted.

 

I have always liked the system where the high adventure boys sell the new equipment idea to the PLC and the PLC (if they "buy into" the high adventure plan)integrate the goals and fund raising into the troop program. Just like when the boys say they want to go to the boundary waters...our committee asks how much it will cost and how they plan to raise the money...if the boys are still "game" then so are we...but they have to be willing to work for their goals...Our troop does not just write a check 'cause the older guys want to go to Sea Base....

 

but remember, like Bob said starting the "program" does not have to be all about $$$$$. It can be done on the cheap fairly easily.

 

luck!

Anarchist

 

good luck

[Oak Tree]

We're looking at getting good quality backpacking gear that can also be used for general troop camping.

 

In my opinion, it's not really a good idea to have patrols do their own fundraisers. I'd say the troop should fund all the equipment as troop equipment. The VP Scouts are members of the troop, just like everyone else, so it's reasonable for the troop to buy the equipment. And besides, the younger boys will soon enough get their chance to be in the VP and use the equipment then.

 

I don't think the boys can do a fundraiser as a VP and then claim that they personally own the equipment. Not so long as the fundraiser is done in the name of Scouting. If they just go out and earn the money themselves, though, "outside the realm of Scouting", then they could buy whatever they want as their own equipment.

 

In our troop a lot of the older Scouts who are most into high adventure already have a lot of their own equipment like this anyway. I think our older Scouts could do a backpacking trip with only personal tents and stoves. But as we look at some of the younger Scouts moving up, we do want to be ready with some troop equipment that could be used for this purpose. All of our troop tents are backpacking tents, but we definitely need to get some new stoves and cookware for this purpose.

[FScouter]

"One line of thought is that the individuals who plan to use it should buy it, ..."

 

That approach would likely lead to the Venture patrol doing its own money-earning event with little or no participation from the rest of the troop. Then when the troop money-earning event comes around, guess who won't want to participate?

 

It may also lead to the I, Me, Mine phenomenon Eamonn talked about awhile back. No, you can't use that stove, it's OUR stove.