Scout Uniforms

[Bob White]

This is not about splitting hairs, it is about knowing and understanding the rules.

[evmori]

5. If a commercial product is to be sold, will it be

sold on its own merits and without reference to

the needs of Scouting?

All commercial products must sell on their own

merits, not the benefit received by the Boy Scouts.

The principle of value received is critical in choosing

what to sell.

6. If a commercial product is to be sold, will the

fund-raising activity comply with BSA policy on

wearing the uniform?

The official uniform is intended to be worn primarily

for use in connection with Scouting activities.

However, council executive boards may approve use

of the uniform for any fund-raising activity.

 

I guess technically, #5 would prevent the wearing of a Troop t-shirt or even mentioning the reason you are selling something. But, if you can get the necessary approval, you would be able to wear the official uniform while performing a unit fundraiser.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Which is exactly what I said.

[evmori]

Yep except the approval comes from the council executive board.

[scoutingagain]

For the most part I know and understand the "rules" and believe CubMom has been given good advice. But this is another area where various elements of the BSA tend to conflict with the written rule and send conflicting messages so it's no wonder many volunteers and some professionals don't fully understand them.

 

5. If a commercial product is to be sold, will it be

sold on its own merits and without reference to

the needs of Scouting?

All commercial products must sell on their own

merits, not the benefit received by the Boy Scouts.

The principle of value received is critical in choosing

what to sell.

 

So how many Councils encourage units to do show & sells of popcorn wearing uniforms? How many councils encourage sales of popcorn based not on how good the popcorn is or that it's a great value, but that it supports council scouting activities? I mean how much popcorn would be sold by a bunch of kids in T-shirts and jeans that told customers the popcorn tastes great and they just wanted to earn some money.

 

And ironically for Eagle projects our town is blessed with a number of local businesses that strongly support Eagle projects with donations of materials and sometimes food. It's been going on for years and donations of materials are routinely accepted for Eagle projects. At every Eagle BOR I've been involved with the District Advancement Chair always asks the candidate if he wore his uniform when discussing the project with the businesses.

 

 

SA

 

 

[Bob White]

Scoutingagain, Scout Popcorn is considered a Scout product. "Commercial products" refers to anything other than a Scout Product.

 

If scouts in yoour area are raising donations of money or product as Scouts for the Eagle product they do so in violation of the BSA money earning policies.

 

As stated previously the Eagle Project is done "outside the sphere of scouting" The candidate is not doing the project for scouting he is doing it for the benefactor of the project and should be seeking donations ass a representative of that organiozation and not Scouting.

 

s Scoutnut has already correctly pointed out...

"#7 -Will the fund-raising project avoid soliciting

money or gifts?

The BSA Rules and Regulations state, Youth

members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors

of money for their chartered organizations, for the

local council, or in support of other organizations.

Adult and youth members shall not be permitted

to serve as solicitors of money in support of

personal or unit participation in local, national, or

international events.

For example: Scouts and leaders should not identify

themselves as Scouts or as a troop participate

in the Salvation Armys Christmas Bell Ringing

program. This would be raising money for another

organization."

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

"And ironically for Eagle projects our town is blessed with a number of local businesses that strongly support Eagle projects with donations of materials and sometimes food. It's been going on for years and donations of materials are routinely accepted for Eagle projects."

 

 

Receiving donated materials and food for a project is a far cry from soliciting money. Soliciting funds for organizations should be left to the adults in that organization.

 

 

"At every Eagle BOR I've been involved with the District Advancement Chair always asks the candidate if he wore his uniform when discussing the project with the businesses."

 

I can see where the Scout would wear his uniform when discussing his project with the organization whom the project is for, but that is about it. The project itself is a service project for an organization OTHER than BSA. When talking to businesses about donating materials the Scout is acting as a representative of that organization, not BSA.

 

 

 

 

[acco40]

Okay, I'll split some hairs. Bob White - I agree that Scouts may wear their uniform (and are encouraged to) when selling TrailsEnd Popcorn but I don't believe that the popcorn is strictly considered to be a Scout Product. Other organizations use it for fundraising too. The fundraising is officially sanctioned by the BSA and therefore no unit money raising application needs to be filed but I don't think the product is considered to be an official BSA product.

 

I have a bad memory from when my oldest son was selling popcorn as a new Boy Scout (he was 11). My son was in uniform (so was I) and politely asked a gentleman if he would like to purchase some to help support scouting in his area. The man questioned my son as to how could he guarantee that the money would go to Scouting and not to him personally. My son, only 11 remember, was somewhat confused by this question but did tell the man that some of the money went to his troop and some went to the local council. The man then stated that he would buy some if my son could point out any BSA registered trademark or copyright on the product (knowing full well their wasn't any). My son, spent a few minutes looking at every box and tin looking for a fleur-de-lis, emblem, etc. and couldn't find any. The man cruelly chuckled and walked away.

[scoutingagain]

"If scouts in yoour area are raising donations of money or product as Scouts for the Eagle product they do so in violation of the BSA money earning policies."

 

BW, you are of course correct. Acco is a brave man to split hairs with you on offical policy and I choose not to follow down that path.

 

What I pointed out was that soliciting donations of materials and in kind support for Eagle Projects by scouts in uniform is essentially encouraged by our District Advancement Chair. They don't solicit money as a scout. But uniforms are very much encouraged at spaghetti dinners, pancake breakfasts and other fund raising activities to generate funds for Eagle projects. I suppose folks again buy that spaghetti and those pancakes because, well our scouts make the best spaghetti and pancakes money can buy. While you see Trails End popcorn as a "scout product" others clearly don't. I buy Trails End popcorn because it's the best popcorn in the world and worth every penny. Don't you?

 

I merely point out the mixed messages from fairly high levels of the organization, at least from a unit volunteer's perspective, and can understand how folks can get confused. I'm not saying any of these approaches are necessarily correct or incorrect.

 

SA

 

[RememberSchiff]

The original intent was to prevent individuals from profiting off the BSA, not hamstring fundraisers for units and scout service projects. When doing a scout service project, you are a scout and are encouraged to wear your uniform proudly in your service. Now about those Boy Scouts that sold war bonds during World War I and my scouts who ushered (collected money) during Scout Sunday service last month ...

 

 

 

[Bob White]

The intent is to not mislead the public as to what products, organizations and activities are approved by the BSA.

 

Scout Sunday is an approved BSA Activity

 

Selling War Bonds was an approved BSA activity

 

Eagle Projects are done "Outside the sphere of Scouting" and the work can be accepted for the completion of the requirement.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

I seriously doubt if the public will be misled if a Scout wears his uniform or Troop t-shirt to sell hoagies. And how what would they be misled about?

[Bob White]

Easily

 

If you buy a hoagie from a boy in a scout uniform and you chip your teeth on a bone. Who are is your lawyer going to sue?

 

The answer is...everyone they can connect to that sandwich. You have no right putting the BSA in a position of liability way by selling a product or service they have not approved of by using the BSA image without their permission.

 

As a member of scouting you have no authority to lend or suggest BSA endorsement of ANYTHING that has not received prior approval of the BSA.

[evmori]

Now that's a stretch! And if someone drops the overpriced tin of popcorn on their foot they will sue the BSA!

[Bob White]

I was offering a simple example that would be easy to understand.

At least with the popcorn the BSA has approved the risk. You did not offer them the opportunity to approve the hoagie.