evmori Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Well, Al, just because it's in Scouting Magazine doesn't mean it's condoned by National. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Auctions, silent or otherwise, are NOT gambling. ONLY the person who purchases the item pays any money. They get something of value for what they feel it is worth to them. In gambling, everyone pays for just a chance (hence game of chance) to receive the item. The people who do not receive the item, get nothing at all in return for their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 There's really no difference between a silent auction and a live auction, except the former doesn't require the services of someone who cantalkreallyfastlikethis. If a silent auction is gambling, then why not a live auction, evmori? I don't quite understand what you're getting at. ScoutNut is right. I also suggest that if silent auctions weren't OK, then National wouldn't have included mention of one in a writeup on best marketing practices by councils ... www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Marketing/Methods/9annual/mc-01.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlFansome Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Well, Ed, just because you say so doesn't mean it's true. If you'd like, you can pretend that I'm Merlyn. I'll ask you for facts to back up your position and you can just keep posting things intended to keep the argument going without adding any value whatsoever to the discussion. It'll be fun! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerscout Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 "Silent Auctions are a form of gambling therefore forbidden" Hardly, as no wager has been made; there is no chance of financial loss From various areas of "US Scouting Service Project: (1)There are many great opportunities for fundraising at your Pinewood Derby: Bake sale: each Scout makes a cake, cookies, or brownies to be sold or auctioned. Silent auction (items and services can be donated in exchange for the sign or flier advertising it will generate.) Note that the Eight Rules state that selling raffle tickets or other games of chance is a direct violation of the BSA Rules and Regulations, which forbid gambling. Also, Adult and youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money. See Fundraising and Pack Fundraising Chair for much more. (2) Now I'm no expert on the nuances between raffles and lotteries and gambling and such, but I sure can tell you this: At virtually every Boy Scout patch Trade-O-Ree I've ever been to, there's a silent auction, and at several council-level fund-raisers silent auctions went on all night. So, that's the route I'd look at, first, and theres a better than even chance youll get the OK from your council Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Well, there are many different types of silent auctions. There are the kind where you buy tickets and put them into a jar for the item you are interested in. So you ARE paying for a chance to win. VERBOTEN! Good enough for you Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2Scouts06 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 We have had a cake auction at our B&G for the last few years. Last year we made $1200! WE always have council and district people in attendance and they get in to it as much as the Pack families! Obviously if something was wrong with this then we would have heard about it by now! Auctions are fine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 My 1st year as a Cubmaster we had a Chinese Auction at our B&G and our DE and a couple other district folks were there. They told me afterward that type of fundraiser wasn't allowed but they wouldn't say anything. We never did that again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerscout Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 "Well, there are many different types of silent auctions" So, okay, we'll just have to choose the correct types to be within the rules & regs -- no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Ed, what you are describing is a raffle, not a real auction. Anything that includes people buying tickets for a chance to win something is a raffle, and against BSA policy. Folks should take care when putting together an auction, or any other type of fundraiser, that it does not contain any element of a raffle. It would also help if the Unit Money-Earning Application were used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Ed, what you are describing is a raffle, not a real auction. Anything that includes people buying tickets for a chance to win something is a raffle, and against BSA policy. Auction, raffle, Call it what you want. It is known as a Silent Auction and Chinese Auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerscout Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 "Call it what you want. It is known as a Silent Auction and Chinese Auction" Calling a pallet a skid does not make it a skid. Just because a Chinese Auction/Chance Auction does not have an auctioneer does not make it a "silent" auction. A Chinese Auction is a raffle, and is gambling. A silent auction where you write your name and bid on a sheet of paper is not gambling. At one of our last silent auctions, held in conjunction with another funder, the winning bid on a donated stainless steel gas grill was $450. Unfortunately, the winning bidder changed his mind. We then told the second place bidder he had won; we received $325.00. When your unit requests donations for unit fundraisers make sure your request is typed on your troop letterhead; include the info that you are a registered non-profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 There you go. Always important to define your terms. "Chinese Auction": Everyone buys a numbered ticket. You put your ticket (or ticketS) in a jar/box/bag in front of the item you desire. Buy 100 tickets, place as many as you want in whichever item's box you desire. At appropriate time, ONE ticket is drawn from each bag, and that ticket's number is announced and that person "wins" that item. This is clearly a raffle. Chance plays it's part, not everyone gets the item they want, and the only thing most folks leave with is a paper ticket. "Auction": Items are prresented to the crowd by the Auctioneer and folks can "bid", or say what they are willing to pay for that item. The highest bid "wins" the privilege of paying their bid as the price of the item. People go away with their bankroll intact or with the item(s) they have purchased. Value of the item determined ostensibly by the amount people are willing to pay for it, but they go away with something of "value" fo their money. "Silent Auction": SSSHHHHH!!!! Items are displayed and a signup sheet is attache to each. Folks pereambulate around and write their name and bid on each items sheet as to which items they would like to buy for what price. Each bid can be "upped" by the next bidder on the sheet (that's what we want!). During the bid time, entertainment is presented, food and drink is sold and bought, a good time is had by all (we hope). At the announced time, all bid sheets are collected, the high winning bids are announced, the proud "winning" bidders pay their price and go home with their items. This is NOT a raffle, as no chance is involve, and every successful bidder/buyer goes home with something of value, paid for at a price agreeable to both buyer and seller. At 4 H cake auctions, I have seen chocolate cakes bring a thousand dollars, cupcakes bring ten dollars each. It is all in the presentation and worthiness of the effort. As to the accumulation of the items for auction, that is another thing. Items might be services (catered dinner, rake your leaves), a trip (drive your kids to school for a week, ten days in the Bahamas) or a real thing (box of Cheerios, lawnmower, antique chair, homemade cake). But NOT a raffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 The only event I've ever seen described as a silent auction is what SSS just outlined. Like someone else said, a silent auction is just like a live auction, except you submit you bid in writing over a longer period of time instead of bidding in real time with an auctioneer. I don't see how that could possibly be considered gambling. On the other hand, I would question how a silent auction meets BSA standards in terms of how merchandise is collected. The real donation is by the people and businesses who contribute the merchandise. What of value are they getting in return for their donation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPAMom Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 In silent auctions, I would argue that the donor willingly gave the item or service to the cause. Maybe it is walking the line to ask for contributions. As a parent, I could come up with stuff to donate for this purpose. For businesses, I would suggest, "in exchange for advertising your business" is what they are getting. The person paying the money clearly gets something in return. If you bid, and you don't win the bidding, you don't pay. So you aren't gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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