Troop Money and Troop Split

[Its Me]

As many may know, several parents and I formed a new troop after six months in one troop. During those six months we paid annual dues of $50, fully participated in a $750 fundraiser. One of the my kid's dad even donated $1,000 for the troop to buy a trailer. The new trailer was purchased and the small trailer was considered for sale.

 

[Drama fill-in]

Well when we announced that we were forming our own troop and would leave the troop after the court of honor in three weeks, the scoutmaster kicked us out. He said all the departing scouts should not return to any troop events and should not attend the court of honor. It gets worse in that the scoutmaster then delivered scathing speech to the remaining scouts on loyalty. He said all the scouts that left were unloyal and did not follow the scout law.

 

As a result of that speech a kid from the old troop is in class with a kid from my troop and guess what? The next time they met the old troop scout called the departing scout disloyal and unscout like.

[end drama fill]

 

My question; are my scouts entitled to any of the money that we paid, helped raise, or donated on our behalf?

 

PS we asked for the old trailer and scoutmaster said no. They were using it now since they are a samller troop. The CC has not returned our emails.

 

(This message has been edited by Its Me)

[eolesen]

In reality, it's not your money anymore -- just like when you leave a church, you can't ask for a pro-rated refund if you forward tithe on a quarterly basis like we do.

 

But... it's worth a sit-down with the chartered rep and institutional head. They will probably be more level headed than the SM and CC, who obviously see your actions as the ultimate vote of no-confidence in their abilities.

[evmori]

What e posted! But I would just walk away & not get into it anymore with this unit. No sense in lowering yourself to their standards.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[ScoutNut]

The only money your families might be able to make a case for is a partial refund of the $50 annual dues, since you were only there 6 months.

 

Everything else is no longer your money. The Troop has no obligation to either sell, or give you either trailer.

 

Contact your Charter Org, not the SM, about your dues. Remember, the Troop is OWNED by the CO and all monies raised or donated, belong to them. You might also mention the way the SM is behaving and that he is encouraging the Scouts to act in un-scoutlike ways to the other Scouts.

[Lisabob]

Personally I don't think you're entitled to any of that money, unless the troop has a policy of forwarding dues or scout account money to new troops for all boys who leave and join another troop.

 

Note, I'm not agreeing with how the SM apparently handled things - it is shabby, rude, and just plain dumb of him to create more enemies and not be a bit more magnanimous in these circumstances. However, I still don't think you have a very strong claim on the money, let alone on the trailer.

 

And I think you need to decide whether you want to start your new unit out still looking backward and fighting these old fights (which may drag on for some time), or whether you want to start with a clean slate, looking forward to all the cool things your new troop is and will be doing. Is it really worth it to fight over pro-rating dues, etc., in the bigger picture?

 

 

[Beavah]

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Joni4TA]

Ditto others

 

You could ask about the return of any pre-paid dues for the future 6 months, but the rest of the money belongs to Troop ABC which you are leaving/have left.

 

By the way, the trailer belongs to the Chartered Org, Troop ABC, so you donated the $1,000/Trailer to the Chartered Org, whomever that may be. If the current members decide to leave Troop ABC and form Troop XYZ, XYZ will have to also leave that trailer with the Chartered Org, and remaining Troop ABC.

 

I am sorry this is happening. We went through a Troo split about a year and a half ago and there is still tension between the units, mainly the adults though.

[hotdesk]

If your pervious unit had Scout Accounts your new unit may be able to get some money. Some districts and councils advise that the troop committee set a policy that allows money directed toward one's scout account to follow that scout. The following is a paragraph from my district:

 

""Transfers to Other Units

It is common that if a Scout transfers to another Scouting unit that has Scout Accounts, that the money in the Scout's account can be transferred to the new Scout unit upon a request to do so. The Scout can never directly receive the money in such a transfer. It must always be given to the new Scouting unit.""

 

This is why, in our district, a Webelo can crossover and start with money in the Boy Scout Scout Accounts.

 

I would check with your Troop Treasurer, Chartered Organization Rep, Unit Commish, and/or District Executive to see what guidelines and regualations exist in your area.

 

[CalicoPenn]

Considering the (now - and not your doing) acrimonius split, don't count on any money or the donation of any equipment to your new unit from the old unit. Each individual parent could ask for a return of pro-rated dues payments but the troop may not be obligated by law to return said amount (depends on the state you live in - in many states, once annual dues are paid, there is no requirement to return any pro-rated amount) or by practice (the BSA National Office doesn't refund money paid for dues - if you pay your annual dues to the BSA at re-charter time and quit two months later, the BSA isn't going to refund you any pro-rated share of the dues - some units might be nice enough to do so but they are taking that money from their operating funds - not getting it from National).

 

As for scout accounts, no matter what a district's or council's gentlemen's-type agreements might be encouraged, there is no legal teeth behind these agreements. While it may be common in some councils that scout account money's transfer - this is by a "gentlemen's agreement" only and is not enforcable by anyone. If the troop treasurer/troop committee say's no, it isn't going to happen - the CO isn't likely to get involved and if they do, it will most likely be to support the folks sticking around. The unit commissioner and the DE (and other professional Scouters) have no power to force a unit/CO to transfer money from one unit to another - and could find themselves facing civil penalties from the State if they tried, depending on the State - most states have regulations on how non-profit funds can be distributed - even extending to "unregistered" non-profits (ie a Boy Scout Troop - not individually registered as a 501c3 but considered a non-profit nonetheless).

 

Quite simply, funds are raised by a unit - not by individuals in the unit. Yes - individuals do the work, but they do so on behalf of the unit (and ultimately in support of the CO who is chartering the unit), not on behalf of themselves. Even in a so-called Scout Account, the funds belong to the unit, not the Scouts. The only exception would be the Scout's own money deposited into a Scout's troop "Scout Account" to be used for the Scout's activities (kind of like a Scouting "Christmas Club Account") - that money needs to be returned. If a unit does accept "deposits" into a Scout Account, don't be surprised if a Unit applies all of the Scout's own deposit amount to activity expenses before they apply fundraising "contributions" in a Scout Account. For example, Scout deposits $50 to Scout Account, and from fundraising, another $50 is added - Scout "withdraws" $60 from account then leaves unit and asks for a refund, figuring they'll get $20 (only fair, that they split the cost in half, right?) - Unit say's there is no money to refund because they apply the $50 Scout's deposit to the activities, and only $10 of the fundraising deposit, returning $40 to the troop funds. Unfair? Maybe - but in the one case I know about in my Council (way back in the early 80's) where this has happened, perfectly legal - the fundraising money was considered "supplemental" funding, the Scout's own money was considered "primary" funding.

 

This is why I've consistently railed against Scout Accounts - most parents don't understand the nuances and regulations regarding fundraising funds and it can become a bookkeeping nightmare for units.

 

What is more important than the money is making sure the transfering scouts get every award they have earned from the old Troop and that you get copies of all of their advancement records.

 

Calico

[Its Me]

 

 

I can see that this could consume many hours of effort and thoughts of my committee members. And it seems it would all be for naught.

 

The old troop did have a practice of giving kids money they ~earned. One year, I am told they even passed out cash to the kids. This past year they allowed individual popcorn sales to pay off individual summer camps. One kid raised $200 in donations and this went directly to his summer camp expenses.

 

 

[eolesen]

I still think that regardless of what happens with the money and assets, you probably should consider meeting with the COR and IH and giving them insight into why you left. You may still wind up empty handed, but it might make them take a closer look at what's going on with the unit they're still charting.

[acco40]

Yeah, the nerve of that old Scoutmaster and his troop. I decided to leave my wife and kids and form my own new family. I asked my wife for the house & the contents, the cars, etc. because it was I who raised all the money. She said no. Can you believe it?