Fundraising Question

[WDL Mom]

Hi All,

 

Our Pack is selling Trails End popcorn this year. We thought that the Pack received 30% of the sales. We have heard from our Council that we will only receive 27% not 30%.

 

In order to receive the extra 3% we must do the following:

Attend popcorn kickoff (did this)

Turn in money in on time (we will do this)

Sell more this year than last year.

 

The third item is causing us some turmoil. We sell over $20,000 worth of popcorn. I think when units sell a lot of popcorn, there is a more limited upside of what they can increase from year to year.

We will be losing a good chunk of change if we don't "increase" from last year.

 

This has irritated a few in our Pack. To the point of, why bother selling the popcorn if the Council is going to play games with the amount returned to the Pack. Maybe we wouldn't be so bent out of shape if we didn't work so hard at this.

 

Does anyone know, is this a Council thing or a National policy? Would discussing this with the DE make any difference?

 

Thanks for your input.

[OldGreyEagle]

At first I was going to move this to the fundraising section, then again, its more policy related and perhaps should go under the Council Relations section, then again, I think I will leave it here unless I get strenous objections

[FScouter]

Since it mentions "pack", maybe it should go in the Cub Scout forum. The program forum seems to be a catch-all. Advancement, Training, Summer Camp, Fundraising, Camping; they're all "program", so maybe those forums should be eliminated and everything moved to Program. Then on the other hand maybe Program should should be eliminated and those posts moved into the other forums.

[Lisabob]

Where ever it ends up...

 

In our council, units get a standard 30% no matter what and an ADDITIONAL 3% for doing the things you mentioned. So I think your council is skimming off the top here. This is something worth questioning. However, as to why sell popcorn - even at 27% your pack is making a lot of profit and you are doing a great job of helping pay upkeep on council properties taht you (hopefully) well benefit from using for a long time to come.

[evmori]

Yeah the fine print strikes again! Ya really gotta wonder what the deal is with the 3% being tied to things ya gotta do. Too many hoops to jump through for no apparent reason.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[ScoutNut]

While many councils/units sell popcorn, the sale is not a National program.

 

If they sell popcorn, who the popcorn vendor is, what the incentives are, what the profit set-up for the units is, these are all done by the individual council.

 

I believe that if your council is using Trail's End, than their cost to Trail's End (and conversely the amount that stays in council) is probably the same as any other council using Trail's End. However, based on the council's budget (much like the budget your unit makes out to see how much popcorn they need to sell), the council then decides how much profit will go to the units.

 

In our council, our base profit from Trail's End popcorn is 30%. We can get an additional 3% if we meet the same type of criteria as you - attend kickoff, meet all deadline dates, and increase sales over last year by a certain %. We don't always make the increase %, but that's OK because we don't count on it. We work on the 30% and everything else is extra.

 

If your council has always had a base of 30% profit and just dropped it to 27% this year, that is definitely worth a call to your DE and to the Council Popcorn Chair to complain. Let them know that at 27% they are making the sale hardly worth the time and trouble to participate in.

 

It will not change anything for this year, but if enough units complain and threaten to stop participating, they very well might re-think things for next year's sale.

 

One year, instead of a flat % increase, my council got fancy and required an increase in each type of popcorn. If you increased every other level, but not the top tier $50 tins (or any other level), you missed out on the extra profit. Boy did they get an outraged earful from everyone! The next year we were back at a flat % increase.

 

 

[WDL Mom]

Hi,

 

The following paragraph is the response from the DE:

 

"The 3 percent in question is the bonus commission that Units earn by completing the 3 requirements: Attend Popcorn Training, Meet Sales Goal (last year + $1), and turn in money on time. The bonus commission provides an incentive for Units to push themselves to improve over their previous performance. In previous years, requirements for commission have been different (sometimes including recruitment, FOS, other Scouting things, etc). As a bonus commission, its designed to be a reward, not a penalty. The Council Popcorn committee decided to reward those units who increase over last year. Please note that this increase is not a percentage larger units dont need to sell thousands more than they did last year, just $1."

 

My Comments:

 

I am glad that it is a dollar amount and not a percentage. I guess I am wondering if it has always been 27% and not 30%? My impression was that it was 30% last year. Where would one get this information? Is the Council allowed to change the base amount provided to the units? Wouldn't that be mandated by National?

 

This gets frustrating. We ran into similar "issues" with the increase in our FOS goal last year. I don't mind helping raise money for the Council and helping support the Council camp. I don't mind doing my best and trying to improve.

 

I really dislike being jerked around. Guess I am getting old and crabby.

[CalicoPenn]

Someone from the unit attended the Popcorn Kickoff. Did the information presented at the kickoff match what is being said now? If the 27%/30% split was explained at the kickoff, then Council has been upfront about it from the beginning and there is little more that can be done.

 

However, if it wasn't explained this way, or wasn't explained clearly and the impression was the units would receive 30% with an additional bonus of 3% if other criteria was met, then that's something to bring up to District/Council popcorn chair. If you were promised 30% and they changed the rules in the middle of the game, then its a call/e-mail to the Scout Executive (not the DE - bypass him/her) and let the Scout Exec know that because of the loss of the 3%, the Council is losing their percentage of your sales next year because you won't be participating in the sale.

 

Calico

[scoutldr]

I found at least one other council on Google who is offering "up to 40%" commissions to the units.

[ScoutNut]

As I said, popcorn is NOT a national program. Every council does their own thing. National does NOT "mandate" any part of any council's popcorn sale.

 

You can find out what your council's profit set up was for last year by asking your Pack's popcorn kernal from last year. You can also contact your Council Service Center and get the contact info for last year's District Popcorn Chair.

 

From what you have said, it sounds to me like your council may have had problems with units meeting deadlines and keeping the popcorn sales going. Unless your Pack did some crazy thing last year that there is no way they would ever be able to repeat this year, selling just $1 more than last year should be a BREEZE! I can't see a problem with meeting all deadlines either.

 

You can still register a complaint that the base profit is only 27%. But, if they raise it to 30% nest year, be prepared to have to have to sell more than just $1 more to get to 33%.

[scoutldr]

Assuming they sold 20,000 last year. So if they "only" sell 19,999 this year, they get penalized $600, even if they did everything else right? That's BS. That's $600 more profit in the Council's pocket, so it's no wonder they are making it harder to jump through the hoops. There are lots of reasons a Pack may not increase sales, not the least of which is membership which ebbs and flows. I would find another fundraiser...let the Council keep their silly rules.

[WDL Mom]

Hi All,

 

As a follow up...

 

We found out that the base percentage given back to the units is NOT 27% it is 25%. Which seems low to me, but, what do I know?

 

In order to get up to 30% you have to jump through a series of "hoops".

 

Will we be able to increase our sales by $1? ... maybe.

 

Our Pack leadership did discuss looking elsewhere for fundraisers. However, in our community the popcorn sale is well received and publicized. It is unlikely that we could earn as much in another effort.

 

I guess we just have to live with it.

[Cubmaster Randy]

I guess we have it good here in our council We get 30%

If we have a rep go to the kickoff meeting and we turn in the money on time we get an additional 5%. Hopefully they wont play those games here

[DenZero]

You guys are lucky. Our council's base commission is only 15%, If I somehow get my login working and get the orders in on time, and manage to get the money in on time we can get a whopping 23%. It was possible to get additional bonuses for early bird sign-up last spring and if I had been willing or able to go to "popcorn training". There's also a bonus for increased sales, but we aren't elgible because the previous cubmaster wasn't willing to run a popcorn sale last year, an increase from zero doesn't count.

 

Most units around here only sell the popcorn as a last resort if they can't come up with a better fundraiser. If our pack were bigger, we'd certainly try something else.

[EagleBeaver]

I guess our council is generous. Trails-End gets 30%, Council gets 30%, and Troops get 35% of the sale price. Instead of having scouts choose prizes, the troop can get 40% instead of 35%. But, that needs to be an entire troop choice.