Can a scout get service hours working a fundraiser

[Gurnee Bruce]

Our troop has an annual fundraiser involving the sales of fresh popcorn and drinks at the village "fair." All proceeds go to the general troop fund, none directly to the scouts (or their accounts).

 

Since they don't "profit" individually, should the scouts get credit for service hours for the time they work at the fundraiser, or does the fact that their work is helping pay for their badges, camping supplies, etc. negate the "service" aspect of the event?

 

My inclination is to give them credit for the hours worked, but then too I make lots of mistakes! I will bring this to our committee, but maybe there is already precedent or regulation one way or the other. The question was originally posed from a parent to our advancement chair who then brought it to me (CC). Ideas?

[scoutldr]

Just my opinion...I would say no. A service project is based on the "good turn", which is supposed to be without compensation. This is not "service"...it's selling a product, which is being used to offset the cost of things they would otherwise have to pay for. Now if the fundraiser is to benefit your CO or a church, or the local neighborhood park, that's different.

[GernBlansten]

Our troop has always given the scouts the choice of getting paid during a fundraiser, or forgoing the payment in leu of service hours. Our troop takes 20% of all fundraising profits and divides the rest amounst the scouts who elected to get paid.

[Fuzzy Bear]

As stated in the Boy Scout Handbook: While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to your religious institution, school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than the BSA.) The project idea must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your unit leader (Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, Venturing crew Advisor), unit committee, and by the council or district advancement committee before you start.

 

Routine labor (a job or service normally rendered) should not be considered. Work involving council property or other BSA activity is not permitted. The project also may not be performed for a business or an individual, be of a commercial nature, or be a fund-raiser. (Fund-raising is permitted only for securing materials or supplies needed to carry out your project.)

 

While a First Class Scout take part in Service projects totaling at least 6 hours of work. These must be SM approved.

 

While a Star Scout take part in service projects totaling at least 6 hours of work. SM approved.

 

I would suggest using the guidelines established for the Eagle when considering service projects for Star and Life.

a service project helpful to your religious institution, school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than the BSA.)

 

The reason is that helping ourselves is what most of learn at an early age and practice it frequently from then on.

 

Helping others daily is something that is unexpected and touches that Higher Power that we like to debate about so much. FB

 

[ScoutNut]

"I would suggest using the guidelines established for the Eagle when considering service projects for Star and Life."

 

 

Nope - Can't do that. That would be adding to the requirements & is not allowed.

 

The requirements state to "take part in service projects". The ONLY stipulation that the requirements put on the service projects is that it be approved by the SM. Star & Life service projects do NOT have to be planned & developed by the scout. They are also allowed to give service to BSA (where do you think that districts get many of their staff for Cub Scout events?

 

That being said, the only way I would consider working a Troop fundraiser as service hours is if the hours were considered "Troop Service", and went toward a Troop goal of some kind. One possible goal could be if you work so many Troop Service hours, you get a percentage off your summer camp cost.

 

Fundraising for your Troop is basically working for yourself. Troop fundraising pays for Troop activities. Service should be for someone other than yourself. Otherwise, why not just have the scout count the hours spent cleaning his room?

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

My suggestion is......

 

....is not adding to a requirement...

 

...it is making a recommendation.

 

My suggestion is.....

 

aligns with the definition of what a Good Turn is all about.

 

A Good Turn is doing something extra for someone else.

 

The Good Turn is what makes Scouting unique.

 

If we make the Scout Service project 6 hours of helping ourselves,

 

then we have taken something away from the requirement.

 

 

FB

 

[Beavah]

I vote with Fuzzy and everyone else.

 

Service is somethin' you do to help other people out of generosity. If you benefit from the work you do (by having better tents on your next campout, or being able to go to the Packers game as a troop), then it ain't service. Even if it doesn't go into your personal scout account, if it goes toward your troop it benefits you.

 

Don't shortchange your kids or your community or the image of scouting. Six hours ain't much. Get 'em out in the community doing real service for an organization or person that needs help.

[Oak Tree]

I vote with Fuzzy, too. The Scoutmaster has latitude to decide what service projects he will approve, and what the definition of a service project is. Requiring it to benefit someone other than the BSA seems entirely reasonable - and doing it without compensation would seem to me to be a base requirement.

 

Oak Tree

[ScoutNut]

I have to disagree that adding the stipulation that Star & Life service can NOT be to BSA is not adding to the requirements. Of course it is. You are ADDING a stipulation. SM approval is simply to make sure that what they are doing is actually service & not just cleaning up their room or cutting the grass in their own back yard.

 

I also have to disagree that service to your council or district is not "community" service & should not be allowed.

 

You do realize that just about everything that your council does is worked, run & staffed by volunteers? Without people (adult & youth) giving hours (& hours, & hours) of service, these events (training, camporees, Cub Days, Roundtable, Day Camp, popcorn distribution, etc) would never happen at all.

 

Think about that when you are asked to unload your own Troops popcorn off of a semi because no adult or youth felt that it was worth their service time to do it for you. Think about it when you can not get new leaders trained because no adults felt it was a proper use of their community service time to volunteer to be trainers. Think about that when you want your younger son or nephew to attend a Cub Day Camp or Webelos-Ree but your council can't provide them because they have nobody to run or staff them. Think about that when you can not get any Cubs to sign up with your Troop because they NEVER see Boy Scouts in action. If service to BSA & it's camps is not real service, then why bother with OA?

 

Also, if service to BSA is not good enough for the boys to do, why should I waste my time volunteering with YOUR Troop?

 

 

Working at your Troop's popcorn Show 'n Sell booth does NOT qualify for Star or Life service hours, but working as youth staff for Cub Scout Day Camp sure as heck DOES.

 

[scoutingagain]

While I support Fuzzy's sentiment I have to agree with ScoutNut that service hours for Star and Life are not the same as planning and carrying out a service project for Eagle. However, I agree with all, that service hours should not be performed for the benefit of the troop.

 

In the unit I serve, we recognize service hours as labor performed for the benefit of our CO, work on Eagle projects under the direction of the Eagle project leader, and work in support of Cub Packs in town among others.

 

SA

[ManassasEagle]

It may be just me, but I read the original question a little differently. I think his giving a very specific example may have confused the issue. Try this on for size...

 

If one of the qualifications to be "service" includes that there be no remuneration, can hours worked be counted toward "service" if the hours also count toward a "Scout account"?

 

Technically, the Scout performing the service is being remunerated by getting $$ added to his account.

[Venividi]

Welcome, Gurnee Bruce.

I am with the folks that are of the mind that fundraising for the troop is not service. The boy scout handbook section on service, while brief, is consistent with the view that boy scout service is a benefit the community. Personally, I would place funraising to benefit the troop in the same sphere as doing chores at home. Sure, one could use a definition of service that would include setting the table for your family dinner as eligible, (or perhaps even cooking for your patrol?), but that does not seem to be consistent with what we are trying to accomplish.

I would hope that there are sufficient opportunities for service in the community, and that your scouts are sufficiently active, that there would be no need to even consider troop fundraising as "service". Heck, 15 minutes of picking up trash on every campout would allow a scout to meet the 2nd class requirement after ony 4 campouts. Considering troop fundraising as service

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

A scout doing a fundraiser whether it is going for the troop at large or his scout account is a scout being "thrifty" and paying his way.

 

A scout providing his personal time to volunteer without financial benefit whether it be for Cub day camp or benefiting some organization in the community is a scout doing "service".

[Gurnee Bruce]

Thanks, all, for you good counsel. I think I like the comparison of the time spent helping the troop with time spent doing one's chores. As a responsible member of the troop or the family one is expected to perform certain duties that benefit the group as a whole. It seems that the concept of "service" as used in the BSA points more outward from our organization toward the benefit of others around us.

 

In this sense, it seems quite acceptable to tell the boys that this is simply a duty that the troop needs their help with (like cleaning up after a camping trip or meeting). I also see that this is not a committee decision, but rather strictly for the SM to decide using his best judgement.

[yelruh]

I agree with the posters who said fundraising can't be counted toward service hours.

 

But, this Village "Fair" may provide other real service hours. Helping "setup", "take down" or even "cleaning up trash", might be approved by the SM. It might make it a long day, but if it's a fun event, often time kids don't even know how much time has passed.