popcorn issue w/cubmaster

[Jaime]

What do you guys think about the cubmaster arranging sale at store for only his child? Our cubmaster notified me the day before(I'm CC), he was doing this that he and his kid was going to sit inside one store and one of the other den leaders and her kid were going to another. No other parents were notified of this opportunity and his individual child and that of the other den leader were receiving individual credit for this sale. I, and others, found it pretty crummy as not only did no other child get the chance to do this, he wore his cubmaster uniform giving the impression(imo) that it was going entirely to the troop as opposed to just getting his kid more prizes. Anywhoo, am I over reacting or does anyone else thing this is a nasty thing to do? We've had major issues with this man being very rude to parents as well. Aaarg!

[FScouter]

Our troop has a committee treasurer. She selects a chairman to handle the popcorn event. Whatever that chairman arranges is what the troop does. Sometimes we sit in front of a local business, sometimes we send a small group of boys to the monthly meetings of the Woman's Club, Knights of Columbus, etc. Always boys are encouraged to use whatever means they have to sell popcorn.

 

Absent any plans developed through the unit committee, I'd say anything any parent arranged on an individual basis is fine. I wouldn't hold it against them that they happen to also have den leader or Cubmaster duties.

[Tami the Mom]

It sounds like you have a lot more issues with him than just this. It seems crummy for him to go in uniform as well, giving the impression it is a group fundraiser. If I was taking just my son out to sell, I would not wear my uniform.

[cubbingcarol]

Did the CM tell you he was doing this on his own, in other words you and others were not invited? Did he think that you as CC would notify the other parents? Do you know for a fact that other parents did not know about this?

I think that his uniform was appropriate if he were there with just his son or a whole pack of boys as long as he was a registered leader and was there with at least one boy.

 

Back in the spring we sold candy bars as a fundraiser. We called the other leaders to inform their dens that we would all get together at the only grocery store here in town on a certain day. The leaders did and do you know who all showed up? Only my husband (CM), myself (Bear DL), and our 3 kids (only 1 old enough for Scouts but we had no babysitter for the 5 and 3 y/o). It looked like a fundraiser for our family except that we were in uniform.

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Some just don't care, some are too busy, some forget. What can you do? Don't forget you can do the same thing too.

 

Carol

[Jaime]

No one else was notified. I asked around afterward to see if they participated and no one had a clue till after the fact and several wondered why they weren't called. I didn't find out about it till the day before when he asked if I wanted to take my son, as in his words, because I don't want to spend hours sitting with someone i don't get along with. Believe it or not, we get along great on a personal level. I just don't like the way he's treating the cubby famillies!!!!! I guess I just didn't lilke the fact that he himself was in uniform and didn't give anyone else a chance while monopolizing two stores.

[Cubmaster Randy]

What about your Popcorn Chairman arranging a "show and sell" with the other members of the Pack for future years? The Cubmaster should be running the meetings not organizing the fundraisers for the entire Pack. For the past 4 years, I have accompanied my son when he goes door to door selling popcorn . As his cubmaster, I do not necesarily wear my field uniform, but I do wear my activity uniform.

I would rather see him arranging a sale in front of a store, that the scout could sell at, than him taking the order sheet to work and selling there for his son

 

If he has been very rude to other parents, that should be addressed by you as CC or your UC

[Eamonn]

I'm with FScouter. I think??

If he was wearing his "Parent Hat" I don't see that he was out of line.

If the Popcorn was a Council Sale he was allowed to wear his uniform.

Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[TheScout]

I thought I remember that scouts couldnt fundraise in uniform.

[EagleInKY]

Scouts are allowed ot sell popcorn in uniform, but that's the only exception.

[Jaime]

Hey all, I can't believe how many responses I'm getting to this and I appreciate all of them! Here's my quandry, I guess...Cubmaster and Charter Rep asked that I be CC, which I am. I have no clue what my role is supposed to be. I'm under the impression that I have the authority to take care of issues with CM, but when I try I get blown off totally. I tend to be too nice about things I think, and didn't get taken to seriousely.

CM ordained himself Popcorn Chair, which I know isn't supposed to happen but I was told that with such a small group they make exceptions. So, I'm still trying to figure all that out!

Then with the sale at the store....We only have two stores in this town and by taking both stores the same day for the sale, which granted..the pack gets their 30%, but the two kids(their kids)that were there got their personal credit for it too.

That wouldn't be an issue if it had been a "den" activity or if all had been made aware so they could participate as well. They invited no one but me and my child and that was the day before. I didn't participate as I didn't feel right about it at all.

I, as CC, contacted both stores afterward to set up group sales(as, like I said earlier, parents were peeved) and was told by both that they had already opened their stores to the cubby popcorn sales and no!!!

It wouldn't have bothered me as much if he would have been "plainclothes". But the fact that he went in there with his cubmaster gear on, as far as I'm concerned, gave people the impression that it was all going to the pack. The Charter Rep was peeved about it and the parents that I spoke to said mostly that if they had known they would have liked to participate with their kids. Now, as to not cause too many problems I didn't pose my questioning to parents as an attack on CM. I simply said I couldn't make the popcorn sale at store and did they by chance participate.

Oh, also I did address the rudeness thing to him and he wrote out a very unapologetic apology to send to parents and told me that he didn't give a s*** if parents were p**sed and if they didn't see things his way then their kids could just not do anything!!!! I'm beside myself about what to do about this! I spoke with council and Charter Rep and they told me to just moniter the situation and keep them updated!

I guess that's all my ranting for now. I'm going to have to check into the fundraising in uniform thing too, I haven't heard that before, but then I'm pretty new to this!!!

Thanks much to everyone!!

[ScoutNut]

From the BSA Unit Money Earning Application :

 

"The official uniform is intended to be worn primarily for use in connection with Scouting activities. However, the uniform may be worn in connection with council-sponsored product sales programs."

 

Popcorn is a council-sponsored product sale. The CM was fine wearing his uniform. I doubt anyone noticed the patch on his sleeve which said Cubmaster.

 

Does the Pack have a Popcorn Chairman (Kernal)? Were the CM & the DL doing a "Show & Sell" with popcorn in hand? Or were they doing a "Take Order" using only the order sheet? If they were doing a Show & Sell with popcorn, they must have received the popcorn from someone. I am guessing that someone was the Pack's Popcorn Chairman. If the Popcorn Chair approved of the sale there should not really be a problem. Yes, the boys would get credit for the popcorn sold, but so would the Pack & the Council.

 

Our Pack does both Show & sell and Take Order. As our Pack's Popcorn Kernal, I set up all Show & Sell Booth Sales. If anyone gets an idea for a spot they run it past me first (not the CC). I really do not want someone going to a business on their own for many reasons. The business's do not like being called by 20 different people. You can NOT just show up, the business would have every right to tell you to leave. There might be a reason why we do not sell at a particular location that an individual would not be aware of. I need to know what boys did Booth Sales so I can properly allocate the sales. We sign out all popcorn before the sale & sign it back in after the sale to keep track of what was sold & to make sure we have the correct money.

 

Instead of complaining about the CM & DL's selling ideas, give your Popcorn Chair a call & see about setting up other sales opportunities.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

A couple of things - If the CM is Popcorn Chair, perhaps it is because NOBODY ELSE would do it. Granted, it sounds like he could be doing a better job of the Booth Sales, but did you talk to him about it? Did you discuss his setting up other sales opportunities for the rest of the boys before you called the stores? There are other places to hold a Booth Sale. Some ideas - Nursery, Post Office, Hardware, Bank, Church, Grocery, Video, Druggist, Farmers Market, Library, Parades, School Events.

 

You said that by being at the sale in uniform he gave the impression that "it was all going to the Pack". Well, unless you have separate Cub accounts, IT IS! Sure the boys get their participation prizes, but goal setting is one of the things the boys learn by participating in this sale. The sale is billed as Pack # 123 Popcorn Sale, not John Doe's Popcorn Sale. The customers are asked to support Scouting in their community. The popcorn profit funds your Pack's & your Council's program for a year.

 

If this man is truly a bad CM, then it is your JOB, as CC, to contact your COR (Charter Org Rep) about replacing him.

 

Finally - Please sign up for training ASAP. You need to take Committee Specific, but it might help you understand better if you took CM Specific also. Next year, in your capacity as CC, approach a parent & ask them to take on the Popcorn Chair position.

 

 

[Jaime]

Thank you ScoutNut!!! I will be doing the training next month(thankfully) so I'll have a better clue as to what I'm supposed to be doing then.

I have spoken with Charter Rep about possibility of replacement and we're keeping tabs on the situation. There have been alot more serious issues than just this and I think this was just the straw that broke the camels back so far as my general irritation level is concerned! I apologize for ranting so much!

And the cubbies do have individual accounts to keep track of what they earned and what, in case of charter not being able to cover something, they would owe for certain activities and stuff.

All in all an interesting situation! Thanks again everyone!

BTW....I love the "Popcorn Kernal" designation!!!

 

[Eamonn]

Jaime

Working for an organization like the BSA as a volunteer along side other volunteers can be really tough.

I have owned several businesses and I know that if some of the people I have worked with, worked for me they would be long gone!! Still I try really hard to remember how much we are paying people like your Cubmaster!! If that doesn't work I try really hard to think of the Scout Law. If that doesn't work I try really hard to remember what a pain it is finding someone to replace them.

Do try and attend the Training's, if the CM isn't trained bring him along with you.

Invest the money in a copy of the Cub Scout Leader Book and take the time to read it from cover to cover.

It's really great when someone is being twit like to be able to quote from the book!!

Heck at times it has even made me look like I knew what I was talking about!!

Good Luck!!

Eamonn.

[Lisabob]

Jaime,

 

Congrats on becoming your pack's CC. This can be a really fun job. I did it for a while and loved it.

 

Personally, I would have a problem with any parent, leader or not, organizing a show&sell event at a store without the pack's permission. In our area at least, there are many packs and troops who sell popcorn, and a limited number of stores to do events at. Consequently, to avoid major "turf wars" between units, several of the packs work together to schedule their show&sell events at different times/days/locations around town.

 

Plus, we've all found that while it makes A LOT of difference to us if the store manager accidentally books two or more units to do the same fundraiser at the same time, it is just a hassle to the manager that s/he would rather not deal with. By coordinating among units ourselves, we have avoided these problems without putting a burden on store managers to keep their/our schedules straight.

 

Finally there's the burn-out problem. I've actually had store managers tell me that they don't want ANYBODY fundraising anymore outside their store because they just got too many requests and customers also were getting irritated. So packs and troops need to be careful not to abuse the good will of the local community, which could happen more easily if every gung-ho parent went out and did what your CM did.

 

So if some parent went and organized something on his or her own, this could potentially create havoc with many unit plans. Maybe this is a way of gently explaining to your well-meaning (take it on faith that he is well-meaning...it'll make your job easier...) but errant leader that they shouldn't be setting up fundraising events without the pack's knowledge/permission.

 

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!