Is this a good idea?

[KurtB]

( long post alert )

 

Let's see if I understand this...

 

- This is not a "Troop Function".

- The money is being donated to the Troop, after the fact, by a 3rd party.

- The labor for the beer booth is being provided by Adults with something in common (scouts, beer, fun, etc.), NOT because they are Scout Leaders.

- The labor for the soda booth is provided by Kids of scouting age (not scouts, but childen between the ages of 14 and 18).

- There is no promotion of Scouting (uniforms, signs, etc.).

 

Assuming all of this is correct...

 

- The CO would have no say in the event.

- The CO could decide if the donation would be accepted or not - as it would be a donation to them (they own the unit).

- The Troop would have no say in the planning of who works (it is not a Troop activity).

- There could not be any "mandatory" work requirement focused on the members of the Troop or their Parents (it is not a Troop activity).

 

Bottom line...

 

It could be done as a "non-troop event" but the way it is being presented sure does make it look like it is a troop event, and not just a 3rd party that is really interested in supporting the local troop.

 

- "Friends of Troop XXX".

- Telling customers that the workers are members of the the Troop.

- Mandatory work requirements.

- Complaints about having to wear the uniform of the Fair instead of the scouting uniform.

 

Call it what it is - A Troop Fundraiser - and get the proper aproval or don't do the event. I agree that $8000 is a lot of money to walk away from - but a Scout is morally straight, obedient, thrifty (learn to work with less if necessary - no troop NEEDS a climbing wall).

 

JMNSHO YMMV

 

Kurt

[beeratscouts?]

I am new here. I have read each message with great care hoping to see rational advice. I want to thank you all so much for your time and messages. I have been berated by even questioning my last week-end activity with the BSA on my home email, and personally at the fair by the scout organizer. Here are my issues BRIEFLY?. I ask only because I care, love scouting, and want to continue to be active with my only son and husband. Last week end was a bummer for me to participate in scouting....here is why:

 

1. The Beer/Soda Selling was a REQUIRED "FAMILY" scout activity. It is on the web site, talked and talked about at meetings with the scouts,and the requirement was a 10 hour day per parent, and child. The troop actually sells itself by saying "We have one fundraiser a year" when you visit as a cub. All boys used to work until recently when they changed the rule to ONLY those over 14! My son is 11, and was exempt from participating. My husband and I split the week-end, I worked Sat and he did Sun. REALLY WORKED! We didn't see each other much this week-end. I slept in, on Sat, tried to avoid it, but was called by the leaders wife that i HAD to be there so I went and served as hard as I could.

 

2. Because we HAVE to do THAT weekend according to the Fair OWNERS, (no church event here). We missed out on a district run merit badge week-end. My scout has earned more badges than any other boy his age coming in. He is in to it and has only missed two meetings!

 

3. I was able to make min wage ONLY for the troop at the soda stand. I could not put a sign that said I was a Boy Scout Mom and appreciated tips. A tip jar is ONLY allowed at a beer stand with no sign! Why not at the soda stand too? The scouts are there learning about business via this required BSA activity, uniform or not. You could say "thanks for supporting the scouts" but customers had no evidence where their tips were going. Nevertheless, I did earn some soda tips (put under the table unlike the beer tip jar) by saying it. I was offended to not be able to get some commission on top of min wage for my day's labor to donate to the troop. THe waffle stand lady next door who manages the booth also thought they should give the "differnt groups in there each week-end a share of the profit". The FOR PROFIT Fair owners didn't have to recruit folks to staff this booth,(it is REQUIRED BY THEM FOR US TO DO BOTH SODA AND BEER. THey actually saved money, using us, as they would never find anyone working for $5.15! They have several beer/soda booths definately self staffed on a required week-end, and tips always go to the individual in beer. The owners still got all the commissions on the drinks. I was told they were "supportive of scouting". This fair is a BIG DEAL where we live. For us, we went once in the past 11 yrs. It is not high on our list, but I don't condone anyone who goes.

 

4. Other Alternates for fundraising? Four families indicated that they could write a check for thier time instead of serving at this activity. We are all willing to write one for more than min wage for the day! I presented the idea to the organizer but was told "our troop is not about writing checks". There are no dues. Not an option. The reality is that the fair won't allow us to work unless we staff so many slots providing FULL coverage for all of them. Over the years these requirements haven't changed. Some folks with three kids like the idea of one week-end fundraiser getting that much profit and being done with it. On a swim team, also requiring lots of parent help, folks were allowed to write a check instead of timing the lanes for example at the one home meet that pulled in alot of funds for the team for each year. The problem is that we had 100 or more swimmers. and not that many scouts to leave that open as an option. Our scouts used to have a very active troop but numbers have dropped. Bottom line: It was REQUIRED of all parents to work 20hours per scout under 14.

 

5. I was called lazy basically because I didn't want to do this activity for min wage without my son or husband this week-end. I did work with the leaders kids (it was their 6th year doing this!) while he worked the beer booth! I worked hard and did what I was asked. It was told to me that "we don't want to loose this opportunity". I have volunteered for the troop in others ways too-driven kids three different Friday nights to camp and served as a summer camp leader for two nights and three days. FOr some it was their first time serving as a parent volunter for scout...since it was REQUIRED. Recently we parked cars for the KOC in exchange for thier free building use, also Required. NO PROBLEM!! My son and husband were treated great! My son had a blast in this family required event and was even given free soda and rides and the KOC were very appreciative! I didn't get a thank you once from the Fair Owners nor lunch but was told "we are only allowed a 20 min break".

 

6. It is not only about the Beer as you can see. But coupled with these other issues, I saw something that I found sad. One leader drinking a beer at 10am on a Sat morning in front of the boys I was working with when he walked me to their booth. One parent said..."I am not loosing sleep over a leader having a beer" but there is more to the story. Hearing about his son who had an alcohol issue recently having to come home from college before the end of the semester, and knowing that he drinks at other camp outs while supervising our boys concerned me. I know this is getting sensitive. (The other camp out is another thread to have.) I brought it up trying to focus only on the min wage issue/missing merit badge issue/do we really want to finance our troop in beers sales anyway? I was told that I should thank the family for all their time over the years. I wasn't appreciative. I am the bad girl now. I am not against a tall cold one. I was told that I should serve them at my home for a scout party recently that was not a required social scout activity. I offered to do that for a "meet and greet at my home" to get to know folks. I went along. I am not against alcohol in moderation. I am saddened that a dear boy our family knows was killed instantly by a drunk driver last month along with his other 10th grade friend while sitting at a red light doing nothing, and I know this is in my mind when disussing all this.

 

7. Lastly, this non-uniform activity reminded me of taking the scouts to summer camp and being the ONLY troop there without uniforms on their leaders. Do you see a trend here? The ONLY troop without one leader consistently all week, and in uniform. The same leader who organized the beer sale this week-end told me she wasn't going to the summer camp "i am not going because my son isn't". No older boys were scheduled to go and as soon as her son gets his eagle, they like others will be moving on. I see it as an opportunit for change. I desparatelly want to see a committed leader who follows BSA direction and frankly don't want to participate in the beer stand. Do we really need all this money anyway? I think the fair owers use us for cheap labor. I am willing to write a check instead. It this really wrong? We had dues in our cub group with no alcohol ever for four years!

 

Tonight is the meeting and my husband and son will be there. I will continue to serve as asked but tonight I will put my tail between my legs and stay home. They can celebrate the $8000 profit (if that is really what it is) for selling beer with tips, no commission, and soda no tips or commission at min wage, secretely, for the scouts. My 11yr had said he thinks it is wrong too to only look at profit and not these other things. I am going to pray for a new scout direction for this long established troop this year.

[KurtB]

It sounds like your 11yr old has things in perspective - the money is nice, but there are other things happening that are just wrong.

 

While you are praying, you may want to ask God for some wisom & help in finding a new Troop.

 

Kurt

[Cubmaster Jerry]

Well, well. It seems as if a few (many) of your Troop leaders have vision that is clouded by money.

 

While I still see nothing wrong with participating in such an event, as long as the scouting affiliation is not made AND not billed as a scouting (family???) event from within the troop, it certainly seems someone is misdirected. And forcing one to participate isn't conducive to a happy troop.

 

No uniformed leaders? While not an atrocity (but close) it does form a representation of the commitment one has in the organization and Scouting.

 

And, nldscout, I believe $8000 IS a lot when it is not being spent appropriately. I doesn't sound like they are funding trips to Philmont here. It sounds like a case of The Troop with the most toys and money in the coffer wins.

 

Jerry

[Cubmaster Jerry]

And, I just placed my fundraiser form on the break room table at work. Hoping for good sales numbers so I don't have to badger my family and relatives more than twice this year.

 

I am sure I am not cheating my son out of an opportunity to learn what being Thrify is. He hears his mother and I enough talking about how we have to save money for this or that because we can't afford to buy on a whim. He already understands the art of saving, bargin shopping, and otherwise not wasting money or resources. Right now he is saving for a guitar and accumulating reading hours so he can earn a ticket to the ball game for next year.

 

He's 9 and I think he'll be ok.

[mdeckerz]

Well, I went to my son's troop meeting last night. The tally from last weekend's work at the fair will be around $8,000, close to the most the troop has ever made. (It was a very nice and sunny week-end and the fair was packed with people.)

 

I asked the SM about whether we have council approval for this event and he doesn't know. He said the TC chair would know, and he's been out of town on an extended work-related trip.

 

One of you suggested looking for a new troop for my son, and believe me, that thought has crossed my mind. But notwithstanding their approach to fundraising, there's a lot to like about this troop, not the least of which is that my son has loads of friends there and he's having a great time. He's a very social kid, and I think if we made him switch troops, he'd start to lose interest in scouting fast. That's the last thing I'd want.

 

There's been a spiritied exchange of e-mails regarding the fair among a number of troop parents. When I started to bring it up with the SM last night, he suggested we "let the dust settle" before we advance the debate. Probably a wise approach. After all, we have a whole year before this comes up again.

 

Before my son bridged in March, I was the Pack Committee Chair for his Cub Scout pack. It was a pretty time-consuming job, and I was hoping to take a break from a formal scouter role for a year or two before getting more involved with his troop. This experience has motivated me to perhaps get involved sooner, to hopefully have more influence on the troop's decisions. So much for a break.

 

Thanks, everyone, for your input and discussion. I'll keep you informed as this progresses.

 

P.S. In case you hadn't figured it out, "beeratscouts?" is my beautiful and loving wife.

[SemperParatus]

After all this, might a suggest a nice romantic night out for the two of you...have some wine on me.

[packsaddle]

Great idea! Dinner...wine...live accordion music at the table....

[anarchist]

mdeckerz,

 

not to be a "scab picker" here, but your lovely lady seems really hung up on being forced to give up a weekend for less than minimum wages...have you warned her about the "one hour a week" you will be giving to scouting?

anarchist

[VentureCrew116]

A fleet of canoes.... a portable climbing wall??....and a place to store them?

 

We can only dream of such things.