cajuncody Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Ran into a problem. We had a Candy sale and we now have a family who claims that a Scouts 12 yr old sister took the money from the candy they sold ($250) to school and spent it. The scout registered with a committee members name and number on his registration as she is his Aunt and brought him to meetings. My husband called her to get the home number for the scout to discuss repayment of the money and she got angry and called back and said she "quits scouting". The money should have been turned in about a month and a half ago. What do we do about the money? Kristi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 What amount of theft constitutes a felony in your state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie_Scouter Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Well, I think what you need to do is have the committee chair contact her and tell her that if she's unwilling to talk about the situation and get it resolved, you'll have to contact the police. Just the threat might get here to cooperate. Depending on how well all these folks know each other, there might be a way to do this less painfully while still getting to the bottom of the problem. Maybe they're dealing with a family problem, etc., and your unit can be sensitive to this while still addressing the problem. However, if they refuse, I think you pretty much have to go to the authorities. Is there an attorney in your parent group who might be able provide some guidance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubbingcarol Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Document, document, document. I would also suggest sending certified letters, and make copies. I don't especially like the phone route because unless you record it someone might say you were harassing them. Just my $0.02 (obviously I'm not a lawyer!), Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajuncody Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 I do not know the amount that would constitute a felony here. We do not have an attorney in our group. The reason we were asking for the boys parents phone number was to see if they needed some more time to pay or a payment arrangement. She became enraged and quit. She won't accept our phone calls and we had to have a third party pick up what pack supplies she had at her home as we are not "allowed" to be on her property. All of that seems like a strange reaction to someone asking for a phone number. Kristi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 In my eyes this is no longer a Scouting problem, it has become a legal problem. The Pack Committee needs to look into what can be done to recover the money. Taking money that doesn't belong to you is wrong. We are in the business of delivering a Scout program, not recovering stolen money. Eamonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I think you have two choices. 1. File charges & have the lady arrested for theft. 2. If the Pack can absorb the loss, consider it a learning experience & make the necessary adjustments to prevent this in the future. I would go with #2. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I think that your problems started when you accepted a child's registration without any contact info for that child and without the approval of that child's parent or guardian. Who signed the permission slip allowing the boy to sell candy? I hope it was not the Aunt. Who signed the receipt for the candy (the one saying that they aknowledge they received the product and are responsible for payment)? If the Aunt signed the receipt she is the one who should pay the $250. Talk to your CO. The money is their's. Since she has not responded to your Treasurer or your CC, the COR or the head of your CO, should arrange to visit her and talk about what is going on. BTW - Your Pack was VERY lucky nothing ever happened to this boy while he was attending a Scouting function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajuncody Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 The Aunt was listed as the guardian when the boy transfered into our pack last fall. She was the one who signed out the Candy. The pack has very limited funding so the loss is going to hurt and I am not sure if we can afford recovery efforts. She went out with a bang and said some very ugly things. Back to square one again, looking for a den leader and trying to be careful not to get burned again. How do other packs handle things like this? Do you allow families to sign out candy or do you just do the group sales? Kristi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 We only do popcorn & have only been burned once in the 10 years I have been with the Pack. Actually that was for $200+ too. The family was rather dysfunctional & spacey. Neither the boy or his parents had been to meetings for a month. Then their popcorn check bounced & when we tried to call, we found their phone had been disconnected. Some more checking & we discovered the boy had been pulled out of school & they had up & moved without giving anyone their new info. We ended up eating the cost. We have never had any other problems with our families. Some might be REAL slow to pay, but all come thru in the end. This year we did sign out some popcorn to one family who wanted to try taking the product itself door to door & to work. They sold some & returned the rest to us. Usually we do take-orders & show/sell booth sales. It sounds like your CO is not very helpfull. Unless you want to sign a formal complaint with your local police, you probably will have to eat the cost. Maybe you could do a car wash as another fundraiser. It is not a sale type, can be fun, & has the potential to make up quite a bit more than just the $250. If one of your leaders can get their church to provide the water & the space, the after mass crowd can be very good source of cars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I'd suggest collecting money from sales on a weekly basis rather than waiting until the sales event is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkins007 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Been there- Cajun, you are just not having the greatest year of Scouting so far, are you? My sympathy! OK, my plan would be... 1.) Document and send her a registered letter politely requesting the money, or asking to arrange for a meeting with the CO or another more neutral party to discuss the issue. If she flatly refuses, go to plan B. 2.) Go ahead and talk to someone (CO, local police, legal-aid lawyer, law school advice line, etc.) about legal options... but I think that most of these will end up costing you more than you've lost already. DO NOT threaten this to her however, unless you are 100% willing to go through with it. 3.) Re-think the fundraisers and pack budget. There are other options available that work better than candy sales. This is a good time of year for some re-tooling. Our pack charged dues (repayable from the Scouts own fundraising efforts) and enjoyed several short-term (usually one day or less) fundraisers that were comparatively quick and painless- but a lot of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubmaster Jerry Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 We, too, usually only do fundraisers that require orders vs. signing out product. Since you can't talk to her, the only two choices you have is to eat the loss or file a complaint with the local authorities. Since she signed for it, she's liable. If you go the latter route, a couple of helpful hints for you: 1. Certified letters. cubbingcarol is correct. They work best in this situation. Give her specific date to repay and spell out exactly the intentions of the Pack and what she owes and why. 2. If you do re-establish communication and she offers a payment plan of some sort, do not accept it. Depending on the laws in your area, it will no longer be considered theft. If she then fails to make all payments it may be a breech of contract. But then you are looking at more cost to you to get that resolved. As suggested, the CO may help in this case. District or Council won't be much help as they prefer to not get involved with individual Pack issues. I would agree that her actions lead you to believe this is more than a 12-yr old being involved. I shudder to think what a 12-yr old would need $250 at school for! Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynda J Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Word to the wise. If you have any child that is registered and list a Legal Guardian, get copies of the guardianship papers. I am Kevin's legal guardian. When I registered him as a Tiger I gave the pack copies of the papers. When I registered him for school I gave them copies. When we moved up into the troop I gave the SM copies. This and all along I have been his leader. Don't take someone's work that they are the guardian. Get the paperwork to prove it. Don't know how large your town is but especially if it is small go down and talk to the judge. We had this with the pack a couple of years ago on popcorn. Boys stepfather took the money. We tried to work it out with the mother. Couldn't. Talked to the judge. He contacted her and suddenly we got the money. Also you might look at Small Claims Court. You don't need an attorney and the amount is below the max that you can take someone to small claims court. If you do that you can add any expenses you have to the amount.(This message has been edited by Lynda J) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajuncody Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 Good news and Bad news: Good news: All money was collected this week by myself and deposited in the bank. Bad news: This cost us our Webelos Den Leader/Committee member. Sometimes it feels like I am waking to school in 3 feet of snow up hill both ways carrying that brick lunchbox from another post. Kristi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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