Does any others not do popcorn sales at all?

[Eamonn]

Hi Free Birdie,

Some of the profits from the popcorn goes to the council. Sometimes a parent doesn't see why the council needs money or where they spend it.

I don't know anything about your council and can't say where they spend the money or how much they need.

The council which I'm in has a budget of over one million dollars.

We do receive some funding from the United Way. This amount has not gone up for a number of years. There is some money coming in from grants. Other money comes from the sales of uniforms and the like in the council shop.

The money is spent on staffing the council. Each District has a DE. He or She is there to support the district where your pack is. There is the cost of running the Council Service Center, this would include the other professionals and the office staff. There is also the cost of running the properties owned by the council. Sure there is a cost for attending the camps but most councils do not include maintenance and the replacement of equipment. Our little council has a small camp which has 27 roofs. All of which has a life expectancy of about 15 years, at some stage these will need replaced. The dishwasher in the camp a $20,000 piece of equipment will one day go to the happy Dish-washing home in the sky.

The Council has a Executive Board, made up from volunteers, these people watch over how this money is spent like a hawk.

Most Councils do ask that the families to help out. Once a year they ask for an invitation to visit the unit and make a FOS presentation. At this time they will ask the families that are served to make a financial contribution to the council. Some Councils have another sale to help the council. Our/my Council does not we only have the Popcorn sale and the FOS. There are other fund raising events, golf outings and dinners, which raise money. These normally are aimed at community businesses. The price tags can be high, our dinner is $175.00 a plate and some of the golf events go for $600.00.

Your writing a check for $100.00 will go a long way to help the pack, but will not help the council.

I would hope that if you don't want to participate in the Popcorn sale, that you would remember the council when the FOS presenter comes to your pack. It is costing over $100.00 a year per child for the council to offer the services that are offered for your son.

Eamonn.

[Free Birdie]

Eamonn,

 

Thanks for explaining some of the council's expendentures. I was aware that the people who are employed by the scouts need to have funds for their salaries and benefits, however I had forgotten about the large camp that the council owns and operate. My son's summer day camp was not held there, but at the county fairgrounds.

 

The FOS visit must have been one of the meetings that my son was with his dad, and hence we did not attend. I never heard any mention of this last year and was not asked to contribute to an FOS fund. There are only 4 scouts in his den, so not sure if someone forgot to ask me or what. I had thought it was mainly businesses who contribute to the FOS.

 

Since the scouts are a non-profit 501©(3)corp., is there any way a parent can ask to see the financial records of the council? I do not believe there is any unethical conduct with the spending of monies, I am just curious to know what their budget is and what costs are incurred from our Pack. I would like to know this before I make a contribution to the council.

 

It seems to me that the younger cub scouts may not be reaping as many of the benefits from the council... because of their ages there are restrictions on what they are allowed to do, such as not being able to attend the council's large scout camp in the mountains, etc. There's never any guaranttee of boys wanting to remain in the scouts to eventually reap more of these benefits.

[dsteele]

I love it when someone tosses a soft ball, like Free Bird did:

 

"Since the scouts are a non-profit 501©(3)corp., is there any way a parent can ask to see the financial records of the council? I do not believe there is any unethical conduct with the spending of monies, I am just curious to know what their budget is and what costs are incurred from our Pack. I would like to know this before I make a contribution to the council."

 

This one should be pretty easy -- I hope so.

 

Call your council office and ask for an FOS brochure. They probably have plenty. There's usually a graphic showing the budget of the council -- income and expenses. Also ask how many packs, troops, and crews are in the council.

 

Grab a calculator and it won't be long before you figure out what it costs the council to support a new unit.

 

Thank you for your consideration of a donation. Now I can tell my DE I did my FOS work for the day

 

Unc.

[Eamonn]

It is hard to say how much of each dollar goes to each unit.

Here in PA. There is a number that you can call in order to get the financial report from charities. I have to admit to never having called it.

A few years back I had a Scoutmaster who had very strong feelings about both the District and the Council. To say that he didn't like either would be an understatement!!

He said to me that he never ever used the Council. I asked if any of his Scouts had ever become Eagle Scouts? A loaded question as I knew that the troop had a first rate program and had seen a good many boys become Eagle Scouts. He of course said yes. I asked if he had ever called the Council Service Center. Again he said yes. I continued asking If he expected someone to answer the phone, if that person was paid, if the building was heated, if he expected there to be records of the merit badges that the Scouts the boys had earned on the path to Eagle Scout. Of course he answered yes to every question. We played the same game with camp. Again he said yes to everything. I ended by saying that for someone that never ever used the council he seemed to be getting more than what he was paying for.

While your son might not have attended the Council camps this year, if they are going to be there when he moves to Boy Scouts, we need to keep them in good repair and ready for the big day when he does use them.

Each District has a DE, most districts in the council which I'm in do not raise enough money to even pay the salary of the DE. While you may not call or meet the DE in person, I will bet that the Cubmaster has had to call him or her.

Many of the people who donate money to the Council don't do so to support their child, they see their donation as helping support the BSA at a local level and support the values that the BSA stands for.

I like to think that we in some way help each and every youth that joins the BSA. Sure the longer he is in Scouting the more opportunities we have to work with him or her, and for him or her. While the program delivery is very much in the hands of the volunteer leaders, these leaders are supported by the Districts and Councils.

If you have the time you might want to attend the New Leader Essentials,training that districts and councils offer a few times a year. There is a very interesting session that is part of this course, titled "Who Pays For Scouting." It would be a great first step for you to become involved with the pack or some other part of Scouting. Maybe on a committee of some sort. Of course the more involved you become the more it will seem that both you and your son are getting more "Bang for your Buck"!!

Eamonn

[Free Birdie]

Thanks for your information and suggestions, Unc and Eamonn.

 

I have already been asked if I wanted a position within the Pack...I'm guessing it was because of my mature age (45) compared to some of the other cub scout parents, LOL. I turned it down for now, since I'm involved with quite a few other benevolent orgs. currently. I might volunteer to be a Den Leader for my youngest son when he can be a Tiger in 2 years.

 

I did volunteer for the 3 day summer camp and got a good initiation for having SO many young scouts all in one place!

[catsmasher]

Wow!

Mention selling popcorn and us Scouting folks sure do get all worked up!

 

My beef with popcorn is:

How much it costs - I feel bad asking people to pay so much for something.

The fact that every other scout is selling the same thing at the same time. Between Tigers, Wolves, Bears, Webelos, Boy Scouts and Ventures, it seems like everyone is selling and we seem to be buying from each other.

The fact that every other organization is selling stuff too. We had a fundraiser for my daughters dance class, our PTO, Scouts all at the same time.

I run a Scout troop and by the time the kids become Boy Scouts - the parents and Scouts are so burned out on selling popcorn that they pretty much just shut down and do not try anymore. We have kids that sell $1000 as cubs who barely sell a couple of hundred as Scouts.

 

As a result we pretty much have to come up with different fundraisers if we are going to generate enough money. I don't sweat the issue with supporting the council - we still sell it and it isn't our fault that Cub Scouts burns people out. In addition, our council informed us that we are not allowed to solicit donations from anyone (even local businesses). They state that funds must be earned. Then I find out that the council has a program where they go to all the business and solicit donations for the council. I don't feel too bad about the popcorn sales if they do not come in very high - I feel that the pocorn is to expensive and no one ever asked us if we want to do it. The council does a great job with summer camp, but we need to help ourselves with gear, other campouts, etc.

 

[packsaddle]

OK, I have resisted until now and now it is a 'handle' that hooked me. Please explain the moniker, catsmasher. "The suspense is terrible...I hope it will last."

 

I buy the popcorn but don't sell it because I no longer have a child in the program. When I was popcorn chair years ago, the cubs sold it, I think, because they had fun doing it and could get 'free stuff' depending on how much they sold. I think they were more successful than the boy scouts because the cubs are cuter at the door and the boy scouts seem to have other priorities.

I buy it for gifts only because I hate popcorn. Dan, that's raving and ranting to you.

 

Our council reports to the troops and packs up front how much their cut will be. What the council does with their cut seems to draw little interest in these parts.

 

My take on this is that your basic popcorn makes fairly good packing material, after it's popped of course. Rats seem to like it a lot but it doesn't work well as cat litter. Finally, working it into the soil in the garden adds beneficial organic material.

[catsmasher]

 

When I was in high school I was (how do you say) a wise guy. Our english teacher asked us to write a poem about a cat. I wrote about an evil villian that stalked the night called the "Catsmasher". There was a cat in my poem all right, but it didn't live long! From then on I was the Catsmasher. It is a good handle in that I can use it on almost any forum (it is never taken).

PS I have two cats, neither has been or will be smashed.

PSS Don't even ask what I did when she asked us to write a fairy tale. That one got me detention!

[packsaddle]

Whew, that's a relief. So....if it was movie, what rating would it get?

[FScouter]

"... our council informed us that we are not allowed to solicit donations donations from anyone (even local businesses). They state that funds must be earned. ".

 

Did your council tell you why boys must earn funds and may not solicit donations? Is it because the council wants to keep a lock on donations for themselves?

[Hunt]

My son's troop does not sell popcorn. Their big fundraiser is to sell and deliver mulch one weekend a year. At this point, sales are primarily to people who have bought in the past who get fliers in the mail. (In fact, we made some changes in the program to make it smaller, because it was becoming too much work to staff, and it was generating more than enough money.) I don't know how, or if, the troop supports the Council. I know I wrote a check to FOS.

I have to echo what a few people have said--I don't like having boys sell stuff. In our area, at least, nobody wants anyone coming door to door to sell anything. As a result, most stuff that is sold is sold to family and coworkers by parents, not by the kids. The schools sell a ton of stuff--wrapping paper, fruit, etc. The market is saturated, and I don't think it helps the image of any group that is making these kind of sales. The only thing people really seem to want is Girl Scout Cookies. This may be different in other parts of the country, I suppose.

[Sylvar]

Fscouter,

You have brought up one of the things that really yanks my chain about the council. Donations. Why on earth can't a pack accept them? People want to support scouting in THEIR community....I say let them! Isn't it a "Donation" when I spend my own money to do something for our pack? One of our Den Leaders bought an electronic lane judge for our derby track last year. Technically thats not allowed because it was a donation to the pack instead of the almighty Council.

When I grew up I was in a small council. They could to be more responsive to the units than the Uber-council I am in now. But even then, the council did very little to directly support the units. Yes, they shoulder administrative workload, but for all their demands on the units you would think I would get a little more bang for my buck.

 

Gonna stop now before I really go on a tear.

 

Shane

[EagleInKY]

Sylvar, You're close to correct. However, I believe you are reading more into the policy than is actually written. I don't have it in front of me, but I believe the policy is that you cannot solicit donations. So, when a boy goes to his neighbor to sell popcorn and the neighbor says, "no thanks, I can't eat popcorn. But here's $5 for your troop". We say "thank you" and add it into our profit from the popcorn.

 

As for a parent of a scout donating a timer for a pinewood derby track, or anything for that matter, that is certainly okay. I dare say that there is not a unit out there that didn't get it's start out of the wallets of some leaders who wanted to invest in the future of the unit. I'm certainly guilty as charged.

 

Finally, there is a way around it. This has been often discussed. I've been critized by some and praised by others. Donations can be sought by the charter organization. So, let's say there's a succcessful businessman that is a member of your charter organization. And, let's say you know he likes to give to the community. He can donate money to CO, who can then give the money to you. This can also work with some grants and other sources as well. Just be careful, and make sure you're following all the appropriate laws, and make sure they understand that it is a donation to the CO in the eyes of the IRS and the BSA.