Does any others not do popcorn sales at all?

[dan]

Now that is a true rant! or was that a rave?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Rave, possibly a Rant, it had characteristics of both. It may have been too close to call.

[Eamonn]

Dan,

I'm unsure if it was a rant or a rave.

I find it strange that this comes from a person who wants the Council and District provide the backbone of the program. He is now saying that we don't invite the Scouts to help provide the funds to allow this. Then he claims that other people are irrational?

He claims that due to excess intake of alchol others in this form are in favor of a "Forced Sale". While I find this both insulting and rude, if it was directed toward me, which I think it was. I think if he reads my postings he will see that I used the word Invite. I don't know about you Dan, but to go from an invitation to a forced sale is a real stretch.

But when we look at someone being irrational, we have a person that has never met me, lives no where near me and knows next to nothing about me accusing me of allowing myself to indulge in access alcohol. This is truly not rational.

He fails to see that the Council's existence does rely on selling popcorn. If that income was lost many of the services that Councils now perform would face drastic cuts.

He goes on to mock the people who state that the Scout Law, which states that a Scout should pay his own way. He fails to see that if a Scout was working to pay his own way by participating in fund raising events that the Scout might not need the Campership or the amount needed would be of a lesser amount.

While I don't know the Gentleman, I would suggest that he takes a long hard look at the Budget for his Council. No one other then him has even suggested that selling or not selling popcorn makes a Scout any better or any worse. However this is the 21st century and if we are to make the vision of this organization a reality it takes money. Good turns are the foundation on which this organization was built and are both commendable and needed. But take away the money and soon there will be no place owned by the BSA to perform these good turns.

Sure the FOS campaigns go a long way, however last year in our Council we didn't meet the goal- if we had to try and raise the money that the popcorn sale brings in addition to the FOS, I feel certain that we would never do it.

Our Council is fortunate that so far the United Way has not cut our funding in the amount that they donate, but it hasn't been increased in three years, which in real dollars is about a cut of six percent.

Dan, as I say I don't know if this Gentleman is ranting or raving. I do know that he has been very rude, very insulting and is just plain wrong.

Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[SR540Beaver]

Fuzzy,

 

Wow! You sure read something into my post that certainly wan't there. I believe that if you go read my over 1100 posts you will be hard pressed to find where I ever vebally abused anyone on this board.

 

Yes, council receives funding from a variety of sources. Even so, most councils still seem to struggle with their budget. I said it was advantageous to EVERYONE if EVERYONE does something to contribute. Even if the contribution is of the sweat variety. As I said, this whole thing got way overblown.

 

A unit should live by the same oath and law that we expect individual boys to live by. To not do so is irresponsible. Part of scouting is service to self and others. Since we all make up the BSA, we owe it to ourselves and everyone else involved in scouting to service our organization.

 

I'm sorry if you felt abused. I don't see how claiming a scout is thrifty is abusive. A unit should be thrifty too. A unit should be providing the opportunities for their scouts to earn money and pay their way. It is nice that council has camperships, but if we are all doing our job, they should rarely be needed. But when they are needed, they won't be there if we don't support the council financially with cold hard cash.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Eamonn,

 

I stand corrected.

 

I apologize for the insinuations.

 

I apologize for my rude behavior.

 

I was wrong.

 

Fuzzy Bear

 

[dsteele]

Eamonn and Fuzzy Bear:

 

Gentlemen:

 

I am standing up and applauding your behavior. You managed to find insult in each other's posts and still conduct yourselves very well. I can't accept the apology that isn't directed toward me, but I can applaud it.

 

Unc.

 

BTW -- it's difficult to type while standing and clapping, but evidently it's not impossible.

 

UG

[Eamonn]

Back home across the pond there is only seven Scout Laws. #5 Is "A Scout is a brother to all Scouts."

Over the eleven years that I was Scoutmaster,I spent countless happy hours going over and explaining what these Laws meant to me, with the Lads that were getting ready to be invested as a Scout and a member of the 17th Fulham (Pioneers).

I have a brother John, who the family calls Sean, and we each call each other Mick!! He is four years older then I am. Like most little brothers I used to get on his nerves and like most big brothers he sure as heck didn't want to be seen with me.

As a Boy Scout, the troop used to have weekly uniform inspections. This was before wearing gym shoes was cool. We were expected to have a clean and polished pair of shoes at the meeting. I hate to polish shoes. My brother spent one night a week at home polishing his shoes. Come troop meeting night I would just borrow a pair of his nice shiny shoes. Of course I never asked and when he found out, he would beat the tar out of me.

So how do I explain that "A Scout is a brother to all Scouts" to a little fellow, when the memory of having the tar beaten out of me is still fresh? I used to say to these little fellows that brothers don't always see eye to eye and at times do have a falling out, but because we are brothers we can work through it and get past it and then move on. That is how things are in Scouting, we promise to help other people, but this brotherhood thing is more then that - A lot more.

Fuzzy Bear, I thank you for your apology. I both accept it and am humbled by it.

Do you have a shiny pair of polished shoes that I could borrow?

Eamonn

[cubbingcarol]

Sniff, sniff...

 

Now I have a warm fuzzy feeling all over.

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Eamonn,

 

There is really only one argument here and you have resolved it well. I want to thank you for your help.

 

your brother in Scouting,

 

FB

[FamilyMan]

Whew! Good work guys. That was almost as hard as being married. Your wives really have great spouses. Now, let's get back to fundraising!

[dsteele]

gentlemen:

 

My respect for both of you is boundless. Shake hands and please continue the discussion. I'm proud of both of you.

 

Unc.

[Free Birdie]

This is only my son's 2nd year of Cub Scouts (2nd grade), and I decided I was not going to go around the neighborhood with my 7 year old this year and hawk popcorn. I did this last year and people did not respond favorably to yet another fundraiser from a child...after all it is JUST popcorn and IMHO there isn't anything special about it. I am bringing a check for the Pack for $100 to the next meeting instead. If he was older, I would suggest that they should somehow WORK for their money. The neighbors are so sick of ordering from these type of fundraisers, and they have to help their own children with their fundraisers.

 

Our Pack apparently really gets into the popcorn sales and that's fine. They do the incentive prizes and I have no idea how much money they send into the Council. I haven't seen anything come back to the boys in terms of equipment and supplies...not yet anyway. The school's PTO pays the sponsorship fee for the Pack, and so I'm not sure what the scouts are getting in return for popcorn sales effort. Scouts had to pay for their own day camps last summer.

 

My son's public school has a policy that does not allow the kids to be involved in door to door sales. All funds are raised through the school's PTO through fundraising events. I love that policy and I would refuse to allow him to do any type of fundraisers if they did not have that policy in effect. Same thing....I would rather write a check out. It would be different if he were older than the ages of elementary school and did some physical work to raise money instead of hawking overpriced popcorn. JMHO

 

 

[ScoutNut]

"I haven't seen anything come back to the boys in terms of equipment and supplies...not yet anyway." "The school's PTO pays the sponsorship fee for the Pack, and so I'm not sure what the scouts are getting in return for popcorn sales effort. Scouts had to pay for their own day camps last summer."

 

Wow, you have been in your Pack for a little over a year and have not seen any money spent on any of the boys?

 

Have you had to pay for your son's Tiger Totem? Did you purchase your sons's Wolf Totem? Did you buy the beads that went on any of the totems? Did you pay your Pack for any and all badges your son received since he started? Did you purchase your son a red patch vest? Did you purchase decorations for use at Pack meetings? Did you purchase your son a pinewood derby car? Did you provide snacks at Pack meetings and food for the Blue & Gold celebration? Did you help pay for your Pack's pinewood derby track? Did you pay anything towards the speaker, entertainer, or whoever it was who came to your Pack meeting and presented some kind of program? Did you pay full price for every member of your family who went on outings with the Pack? Did you purchase your son his handbooks? Did you purchase your son his scarf? Did you pay your son's national reistration fee? Did you pay for your son's Boy's Life subscription? Did you pay for any holiday treats given to your family members at Pack meetings? Did you purchase all of the paper, crayons, paint, sissors, tape, glue, and markers used by your son? Did you pay for your Den Leader's training fees?

 

You state you had to pay for Day Camp, but that you did not have to pay the sponsorship fee (whatever that is). What have you paid for besides camp? Chances are, you may have answered yes to a few of the above questions, but I would bet that most of them returned a no answer. For most Packs (& other BSA Units) the popcorn sale is their main source of money. With out the popcorn sale (or some other fundraiser) your answer to EVERY single one of the above questions, and probably many more, would be YES!

 

 

[Free Birdie]

Scoutnut,

 

Thanks for responding to my post. I will try to answer all of your questions, even though you might have meant for them to be rhetorical.

 

These are what I have had to pay for:

Since this is the first year my son has worn the blue shirt..I had to buy all the patches for his shirt, except the Tiger, Wolf and Quality Unit patch. He did receive a patch for the summer day camp, but I thought it was part of the registration fee I paid.

 

I haven't seen any of the boys with a red vest for their patches, so I assume if I wanted my son to have one, I would be required to purchase it. I did see the vest in the Scout mini-store, so maybe the boys keep them at home?

 

I haven't seen decorations used at the Pack meetings; our Den has never discussed it.

 

Snacks are not furnished at Pack meetings, but each Den takes a turn providing baked goods that are raffled off at each Pack meeting...to be taken home and consumed later.

 

Blue and Gold Celebration is family potluck. Each family contributes what is served. No outside catering..the gym is used.

We do not have paid speakers or entertainers at the Pack meetings. The Cub Scouts do their own skits.

 

To my knowledge, the few family activities our Pack did together, the admission prices for myself and my son were reduced by the business and not suplimented through the Pack.

 

I did purchase my son's Wolf handbook, as well as his Boy's Life subscription.

 

The Tiger den meetings were held at the Scouts' home on a rotating basis, so each family provided papers, crayons, and any other supplies, as well as providing snacks and drinks. This year we are holding our meetings in the school gym and have not used any supplies yet, I suppose we will be asked to bring our own supplies when needed.

The sponsorship fee for the Pack consists of a $75 fee that is paid by the school's PTO. I assumed that went to the council.

 

I know the Pack purchased the plastic beads for Tiger totem and also think they purchased the totem. He has yet to be issued or told to buy a Wolf totem.

 

The Pack purchased his scarf.

 

The pinewood derby car was wrapped in Christmas paper and given to my son by his Tiger Den Leader last year; either he paid for it out of his own pocket, or the Pack purchased it. The pinewood derby is a rather sore subject with me. My son's dad (divorced) refuses to take my son to any scout meeting or events so I already knew he would not be going to the derby. It's a shame too, his dad has a constuction co. and has restored several cars from the ground up. With all the talent, knowledge and tools that his dad has, he could have helped our son build a fine derby car. So...since I wasn't at the derby, I don't know about the derby track...I assume the Pack paid for any tracks.

 

I don't know if part of my son's registration fee at the beginning of the year is for nationals.

 

Holiday treats..I can't answer that one either. That Pack meeting was held on a Friday weekend my son was with his dad, so I'm not sure what they did.

 

Good questions, Scoutnut...my son's den meetings are held on nights that my son is consistantly with me, but the Pack meetings do not always fall on the nights he is, so unfortunately he missed several.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy supporting the scouts, just don't like the idea of popcorn sales for 7 year olds. I don't have any problem writing a check out, but I think it would behoove me to get a better handle of the financial dealings within the Pack.

[ScoutNut]

What you need to do is ask your Cubmaster or Pack Treasurer for a copy of the Pack financial report. It should be available for any family who asks.