Jamboree Fundraising

[Heacox]

Our two sons (and ASM dad) are registered to go the 2005 National Jamboree. Can they do fundraising to help pay their way? Council has never done fundraising specifically for this and doesn't seem interested in offering advice. There are 5 boys in our Troop (including ours) registered for Jamboree, but the other 3 don't seem interested in fundraising either. Any suggestions on what we could do? Are there any limits on what we can do from a BSA policy standpoint?

[Eamonn]

In our Council we have a committee to handle the Jamboree. They start with the selection of Leaders and look after all the details: Transportation, Equipment just about everything.

We also provide opportunities for fund raising in the past sales of pies and pizzas.

We send two troops and each troop can also set up fund raising events. Last time the other Scoutmaster set up some sort of a candy sale.

Many of the Scouts home troops allow them to keep all or use the money raised at troop fund raising events to go toward Jamboree expenses.

While I am unsure if there is any hard and fast rule I would think that it would be best to get any and all fund raising events OKed by the Jamboree committee or if done at the unit level by the troop committee with all the necessary paper work and permits filed with the council.

I have to admit to being a little surprised at hearing that your Jamboree Committee is not doing any fund raising events to help offset the expense. You might want to discuss and explore the idea with the Jamboree Scoutmaster.

I have as Scoutmaster for a Jamboree troop been approached by some of the parents who thought that a spaghetti dinner might be a good idea. We are going to talk about it at our next meeting and if there is enough interest and enough people to make it work we will go with it.

The difficult thing is that some of the Scouts don't need the money and really have no need to fund raise. I spoke to one Lad and asked why he hadn't sold pizzas he told me that he had collected enough money at Christmas from his paper route to pay for the Jamboree.

Eamonn

[rlculver415]

Our troop has been doing a huge amount of fund-raising this year for our summer camp-trip to Oregon. Not Jamboree, but a similar situation. Our Council advised us that fundraising by our unit was acceptable and encouraged, but that we could not wear our "Class A" uniform to any but the Popcorn sales. So we fundraise in troop t-shirts.

 

Let's assume you get the "go-ahead" --

 

As to what to do for fundraising, I expect you'll get as many ideas here and where you live as there are people to offer them. The main this I, as Fundraising Chair for our troop, would suggest you do is to make the community pay up rather than the scouts' families. There are many ways to do this: car washes, dog washes, pet beauty contests, yard sales, cook-offs, booths at community festivals, sales of candy bars/flowers/wreaths/Christmas trees, drawings, golf tourneys, etc. Krispy Kreme doughnuts has a good fundraiser. One of our local grocery stores has a special-coupon program that will donate .1% of every coupon-bearer's total bill to whatever organization is identified on the coupon. A local flower shop offers a small bouquet each month for a year. The cards sell for $20 and the return is 50%. Go for high percentage return on any investment. Avoid any fundraiser that offers a return of less than 50% of amount raised - you'll likely lose money or the effort is much greater than the satisfaction of earning any funds.

 

Keep a record of what works, what could be improved, and what failed to succeed. Your unit fundraiser will appreciate the info.

 

 

[Bob White]

rlculver415

 

You need to read the rules listed on you unit fundraising application. It extends far beyond not wearing the uniform to include not using the name or emblems of the scouting movement when advertising, selling or delivering the product.

 

As long as your shirt does not mention scouting or display the emblems of scouting, and no one mentions scouting you are OK. But you do not have the authority to sugeest that the BSA is lending endorsement to a commercial product unless explicit permission is granted by the BSA.

 

The rules on the money earning application are very clear on this.

[SR540Beaver]

Part of the wording on the form says, "The official uniform is intended to be worn primarily for use in connection with Scouting activities. However, the uniform may be worn in connection with council-sponsored product sales programs."

 

I and many other Scouters read that to mean that if the council approves your fundraiser, you are approved to wear the uniform. If you are not going to wear your uniform or even mention scouting while selling a product to raise funds, why even bother to get permission to raise the funds? How would the council know if you don't ask? One would assume that the council wants you to make the request for approval for the express purpose of making sure you are not selling something that could make the BSA look bad. If you can't mention scouting while selling, how can you make them look bad? I guess the question is what does the form mean by "sponsored"? Does it mean a council wide fundraiser or does it mean ANY fundraiser approved by the council?

[Proud Eagle]

(WE ARE GOING INTO A TANGENT. BRACE FOR TANGENT.)

 

Bob White, I believe, is correct about the rules. They are somewhat strict and restrictive. They are also a bit unrealistic in my opinion. However, the best interests of the BSA are being looked after. There is a certain notion that the BSA is endorsing a product that it sells.

 

That being said, you will see many unit fundraiser being done all over the place. "Boy Scout Christmas Tree Sales", "Troop XYZ Pork Chop dinners", "Pack LMN Pancake Breakfasts". These will be done with participants in everything from troop shirts and hats, to the complete field uniform, to civilian street cloths. The fact that it is wide spread doesn't make it good, but it does say something. I think the thinking of most is that it is explicitly a unit fundraiser, and therefore the unit (legally the charter organization) is endorsing the product (if anyone is, I think it is a bit of a stretch to think that just because someone sells something means they endorse it), not the BSA or the council. It would be foolish to hold a unit fundraiser and then when someone asks what the money will be used for, all you could say is, "I am not at liberty to discuss that" for fear of making someone think the BSA had endorsed something.

 

(NOW RETURNING TO THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD)

 

I have also known troops that held fundraiser just to support various special opportunities for the members. The understanding is that those not going this time will be able to go next time, or to some other special event. I have seen troops do this for the jamboree, for Philmont, and for other activities. It is also not uncommon for troop to hold a fundraiser, send some money to the general fund, but use some to support Scouts going to jamboree, NOAC, Philmont, JLTC, or other special programs and events.

 

I think that is OK, so long as there is some consistent system for selecting who the troop will support, that gives everyone the opportunity to receive similar benefits over the course of their Scouting career. However, if the parents of the boys going to Jamboree just force some one time diversion of troop funds to such a purpose, that is not right.

[Bob White]

Proud Eagle

You are overlooking an important difference. the BSA does nopt say that you canot wear the uniform for product sales.

 

It says you cannot wear the uniform or use the name or images of scouting for a BRAND NAME product or service.

 

You can wear the uniorm to sell Pancake breakfast tickets but not Pillsbury Pancake Brakfast

 

[Bob White]

Please allow me to repost as I was racing to get out the door for church.

 

Proud Eagle,

You are overlooking an important difference. the BSA does not say that you cannot wear the uniform for product sales.

 

It says, you cannot wear the uniform or use the name or images of scouting for a BRAND NAME product or service.

 

You can wear the uniorm to sell pancake breakfast tickets but not Pillsbury Pancake Breakfast tickets.

 

You can sell Krispee Kreme donuts but not in uniform, or in any apparel that connects you with scouting, nor can you mention scouting in advertising, when selling or when delivering name brand products.

 

You can wear your uniform (activity uniform would probably be better than the field uniform) when doing a carwash but not if the carwash has a commercial product or business name attached to it.

 

You cannot sign a contract on behalf of the troop or scouting either.

 

Bob White

 

 

[Heacox]

I hear what you all are saying as it applies to unit fundraisers. But if my sons want to sell Christmas trees or any other product-KK donuts even-with the goal of making money to pay for Jamboree, can they say that they are selling trees/product "x" to earn money for BSA jamboree if they don't mention our troop/chartered org/council/etc.?

[Bob White]

You CANNOT sell any product or service using the name, images, or referencing the BSA without the permission of yourlocal council Scout Executive.

 

You have no legal grounds to represent the BSA when raising funds unless you do so with the permission of the BSA.

 

No individual can raise funds using the scouting name or images. You must do so as a unit, district or council entity. Think of the abuses that would be possible if every one of our nearly 6-million members could run around doing their own personal fundraiser using the name of the BSA.

 

If your son wants to raise funds using the scouting name or symbols he needs permission. If he wants to work for income and use that income for whatever he wants including jamboree he is free to do so.

[Proud Eagle]

My apologies Bob White. I was in error. I suppose next time I will do my homework a bit more carefully.

 

I do imagine there are many examples of commercial products being sold for fundraisers. Scouting magazine certainly has enough advertisements from fund raising companies to indicate that.

 

I do however, wonder about one thing. I am going to create a hypothetical situation, and I am not really certain if it is within the rules or not.

 

Troop XYZ decides to do a Krispy Kreme Doughnuts sale for a fundraiser. However, they are aware they cannot have a "Troop XYZ Krispy Kreme Doughnut Sale". They fill out the proper unit fund raising application and receive approval. The troop then takes orders for the doughnuts. During the promotion of the fundraiser and the sale of the doughnuts the commercial brand is never mentioned. When the product is delivered, it just happens to be KK doughnuts.

 

Would that be within the rules? I am a bit uncertain.

 

Can a unit sell a generic product and then fill the orders with a commercial brand name product?

Does it make any difference if the product is in a brand name package or a generic package?

 

I think this is a somewhat unclear area based on the Ten Guides to Unite Money-Earning Projects. (I searched them out and read them since my last post.) I don't think I would really want to be the one trying to "sell" the plan to the council, but it might be possible.

 

Here is another question relating to fund raising. Can a charter organization carry out a fundraiser for its programs, and state that supporting its Scout unit(s) is one of the benefits of the fundraiser? This is obviously something that would be based on the terms of the charter agreement, but since I have never seen one of those, I don't really know.

 

Also, what are the limits on the unit's or individual Scout's participation in a charter organization run fundraiser?

 

I would like to note that in my opinion the BSA violates the sixth guide by the popcorn fundraiser. It does not provide either a good value or a competitive price.

 

Also, just about any fundraiser will, under true strict scrutiny, fail on the eighth point. Simple economics dictates that any money spent on purchasing a product from a Scout is money that will not be spent on some other goods or services. Therefore, all Scout fundraisers reduce the amount of money going into for-profit endeavors. This may be mitigated by the following facts: portions of the money will be reinvested in the community through purchases of goods and services by the Scouts and unit, and Scouts and their families may have additional funds available to spend on commercial goods and services due to decreased demands for personal funds to support Scouting activities. Even something benign seeming like a pancake breakfast after a church service will impact businesses due to increasing the supply of that good (pancake breakfasts) while decreasing the demand (in the form of after church eaters).

[Bob White]

IN the first case you offer, the BSa does not own the product name and so has no concern in how you use it, although the owner of the product may. What the BSa controls is the name and images of the BSA and they are telling you that you cannot use the name or image of the BSA when selling a commercial product. Even if you do not mention the product name during the sale, at the point of delivery deliver you have made the BSA an endorser of the product.

 

In your second scenario, the Charter Organization can do whatever they want with the money they raise, but they cannot associate the name or images of the BSA without the permission of the BSA.

[KoreaScouter]

Heacox;

 

Your original post included several questions; we seem to have focused more on the last one.

 

I was in a similar situation in my last Troop, with a World Jamboree predicament. Also very expensive, and five of our Scouts wanted to go. For reasons beyond our control, we received registration packets late, and the deadlines for the deposit and first payment had come and gone. No worries, said Western Region, you can catch up (good buncha folks). Now, the question was, how can these five Scouts do this enormous amount of fund-raising in addition to all their other Troop/patrol activities?

 

The committee agreed to "sponsor" their fund-raising efforts by submitting unit money earning applications on their behalf, with the understanding that it would be just those five participating in these particular activities. They also stipulated what the fund-raising could be used for, and what would happen to the funds if they wouldn't/couldn't go, quit, moved, or whatever. Council approved the applications, and we were off and running. BTW, all five Scouts had parents on the committee (but not the CC).

 

Well, they got thrown a huge curve when the primary fund-raising method got pulled out from underneath them by the organization that originally allowed them to do it. It was a real blow because it generated lots of $$ without product overhead, etc. So, they had to move to less profitable activities, which took more time. The Scouts involved began missing Troop and District activities because they were WJ fund-raising, and I could see that they were getting frazzled over it. I expressed my concern, but the families and the committee (largely synonymous in this case) were on this "Thailand or bust" bandwagon -- if something had to give, it was the Troop activities. That hurt us, because by definition, these were all older Scouts who all had significant PORs.

 

To make matters worse, the fund-raising goals morphed from the WJ fee, to the WJ fee plus airfare, to the WJ fee plus airfare plus uniforms, to the WJ fee plus airfare plus uniforms plus incidentals, etc., etc. It started stinking like dead fish, especially considering that, for example, we didn't allow other Scouts in the Troop to use raised funds to purchase uniforms...

 

Long story short, they raised enough money, they went, they had a good time. That said, here's the lessons I learned:

 

- Some goals aren't worth it. If the fundraising burns you out and as a result the event becomes anti-climatic, what's the point?

 

- Get everybody's agenda on the table up front. It'll help frame the discussion, the plans, and help prevent any misunderstandings. Everybody ain't a saint.

 

- Know that any additional fund-raising must come at the expense of something, unless your son has lots of time when he sits around doing nothing. That something could very well be his involvement in the Troop/patrol programs.

 

- Volunteer parents have only so much initiative for Scouting. If they hold Troop positions, don't be surprised or disappointed if they begin "mailing it in" so they can support their Jamboree son's efforts to get this paid for.

 

- If you live in a small community, consider the effect of the fund-raising on the good will you may have built up. It's not just Scouts who can get burnt out -- the people who support you can, too. There's a good reason why GS only sell cookies for a short time, once a year.

 

Good luck; keep your hand on the stick, check six, and keep the aims/methods for the entire Troop on your HUD...

 

KS

[SR540Beaver]

Maybe I'm just being really dense this morning....nothing new there. Let's define what we mean by the word "endorse". By endorse, do we mean that XYZ Candy Co. has met the BSA's standards of quality and the BSA has put their stamp of approval on that product to the exclusion of all other candy companies? When a boy is selling XYZ candy as a fundraiser for his unit, does the unit or the customer think that is what is happening when they buy the product? Especially because the boy has on a uniform? Or do they just think they are buying some candy from a Scout to help support his unit? How do we define a "commercial" product? Car washes and breakfast/dinners aside, what product for sale is not a "commercial" product? If you are selling candy, nuts, sausage, fruit, wreaths, fertilizer, etc.; it had to come from a commercial company that manufactures the product. What is the purpose of the Unit Money Earning Project form? If your unit wants to sell a product, you have to fill out the form and get it approved by the council. At that point, you have the councils approval to sell a product to raise funds for your unit. Why would they give you approval and then tie your hands by saying you can't let people know you are part of the BSA? That just doesn't make sense. I have people come to my door all the time selling something. Everyone of them tells me what they are raising funds for. Their school, dance group, sports team, church youth activity, scouts, etc. I'll buy from almost everyone of them because I know it is a good cause and because the kid is putting forth the effort. The 30 year old guy who is selling magazines to win a trip gets the boot. So, why can't you mention you are with scouts or wear your uniform when the council has reviewed your plan and approved it?

[rlculver415]

I knew I'd get it for mentioning Krispy Kreme! Actually, our troop didn't do the doughnut sale because while it is a good fund-raiser (even within BSA parameters), our nearest supplier is over an hour away. That would require one of us getting up mighty early to be there by 6 am.

 

None of our other endeavors (outside of Popcorn) included brand-name products.

 

Our troop shirts do have a tiny BSA emblem, with a large troop logo on the back. Whenever anyone asks what we are fundraising for, we tell them it's for Scout summer camp, Eagle project, whatever. I'll need to re-read the rules to be sure we haven't screwed up.

 

I think, Heacox, the question is no longer can you all fundraise - yes, you can, as long as you get your Council's blessing. Read the rules carefully. I know I will be even more alert about this.

 

Another suggestion - have you considered asking others to sponsor you, like your CO or extended family and friends? (BW - I'm cringing here, since I'm saying this without any rules in front of me to check.) My son let it be known to family and close friends last Christmas that the trip to Oregon would be beyond our usual means, and that he would appreciate cash for gifts to help him be able to go.