Popcorn Fiasco

[CubsRgr8]

Each den in our pack handles den dues (setting the amount, collecting the money, and spending it) themselves. This fall, I asked the scouts in my den (Webelos 1) to sell $150 worth of popcorn (32% commission) or pay $50 den fees. I use the proceeds to pay for den supplies, 100% of their annual registration fee, 50% of the cost of Boys Life, and 50% of the admission price to sports, theatre, etc.

 

One scout turned in an order for $226 worth of popcorn. A week later, he picked up the popcorn. Now, two months later, he still has not turned in all the money - he's about $90 short. I spoke with his mother once and have left many phone messages that the three of us need to sit down and figure this out. No response. The scout comes to den meetings, is enthusiatic, and really needs scouting.

 

I am at a loss as to what I should do next. Should I withhold his prize ($10 Walmart card) and require that he pay his registration fee? I don't want to lose this kid (like I said, he REALLY needs scouting), but I can't ignore this, now can I? Sage words of wisdom would be appreciated.

[EagleInKY]

I would certainly hold the prize until his money is paid. The rest is probably a judgement call. If you know the family is having a financial hardship, you may give them a little leeway. Perhaps you give them something in writing that shows the amount owed, and give a date for when payment is due.

 

If you don't think financial hardship is the issue, I would not pay the recharter fees. Even if he does "need it", you are not just spending your money, but the money of the other members of your den (unless you plan on paying for it out of your own pocket). If he's really enjoying it that much, he'll force mom to do something. Maybe then she'll talk to you about what the issue is.

[Fuzzy Bear]

You may have found the boundary of your enthusiastic Den dues program. It certainly is a good idea but with such amounts, there is a temptation for some to not come forward with full payment when there are money problems at home.

 

Den and Pack leaders have been taken to task for the amounts that you are saying was not turned in. I have witnessed the punishment and in both cases, it was expulsion from the program.

 

Since responsibility is the key, you may want to find who is responsible. Most likely it is the parents but then it could be the young man. A home visit will reveal allot of background information fairly quickly. Take another leader with you for the visit. If you find yourself in the middle of a strange interaction, leave and contact the Scout Executive in your area.

 

Most likely you will not get your money back. You may also alienate the parents by even an indirect accusation and the Scout will not be allowed to return. Money programs can create unintended problems. It can also be helpful in training Scouts early in salesmanship, thrift, budgeting, and taking responsibility.

 

I caution you about listening to what is said here. Read and then sit down with a trusted leader and review your plan of action. Sometimes being close to the problem makes a difference. Also, someone else may know the family and have an insight that might work.

 

I know that it is a terrible situation but to ignore it, may cause other problems more difficult to solve.

FB

 

[Eamonn]

This is going to sound kind of tough.

You need to send the parent a Registered Letter demanding payment. Along with a copy of the letter via normal mail. Inform the parent that if arrangements for payment in full are not made within seven days that you will turn it over to a collection agency and they will incur the costs. Add the cost of the registered letter to the amount owed.

As leaders we are in the program business not the collection business. It is not fair to who ever will be out of pocket to have to pay this. Selling the popcorn and not turning in the money is out and out thievery.

Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[FScouter]

The financial condition of the family should have absolutely no bearing on the course of action you take. The money collected by the boy and his family was not theirs to spend. They must pay it back, and now, not later.

 

Consider too that a good way to sell popcorn is to take the order and collect the money first. Then place the popcorn order and deliver it when its received.

[dsteele]

Cubsrgr8:

 

You're not the first person to be in this situation. The advice you have been given in these threads is sound, but I strongly urge you to go see your district executive and/or field director. They need to be aware of the situation. You are correct in that it is your unit's problem, but they can and should give you the counsel you seek.

 

They also need to be aware of the problem. Especially given your words that this boy really needs Scouting. In order for Scouting to help him fully, your staff needs to know what those needs are.

 

Good luck. You know where to find me, for now, if you need me.

 

Dave

[Twocubdad]

I'm with Eamonn on this.

 

Do the math. Of the $90, you are paying out $60 to the council for the popcorn. Hard, cold, American cash. Only $30 is lost revenue to the Pack.

 

We had a similar situation in our pack. We told the parents that we would file civil and/or criminal charges if payment wasn't forthcoming.

[frank10]

Twocubdad,

an other way to look at is that the cub sold $262 of which $72.32 goes to the pack. Total loss would be $17.68 . Doesn't change the problem much but at least most of the $$ is the profit. If they hold the prize it's almost even.

[NeilLup]

Good but sad counsel.

 

One hears about this kind of thing fairly frequently. When you contact the parents, expect either a hostile reception or a tale of woe which will make you bleed. Expect "A Scout is Friendly" and "A Scout is Kind" to be sorely tested. You need to be prepared, in advance, with what you will do and likely follow through.

 

Most likely, it is not the boy. Rather, it is the parents who are having exceedingly hard times. If possible, you need to figure out how to get the money while showing a lesson on responsibility to the boy. Tough job!

[evmori]

This is simple. They sold the popcorn. They owe the money. Simple. I would follow Eamonn's suggestion.

 

This seems to happen all the time. Parents think this is THEIR money since THEY sold the popcorn. This is where THEY are wrong.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Fat Old Guy]

Has the Scout delivered the popcorn to the customers yet? If he doesn't have the money in hand, his parents might not be willing to front him the money to pay off his bill.

 

I know of a Scout who needed to turn his money in but still hadn't delivered it all so he needed about $50 to square his account. Our popcorn chair was talking to him on the phone about the problem and he asked his mom for the money. Mom's reply, "I don't have $50, ask your dad." Dad said, "I don't have $50 for you, that's your problem." Before you start talking hardship, both parents have good jobs. Mom spends a fortune on Longaberger and Pampered Chef junk. Dad buys new golf clubs on a regular basis and always has greens fees. They just aren't willing to help him out.

[CubsRgr8]

The pack isn't out any money because this was a den fundraiser. As such, it's the den's treasury that is short the $90. I will involve another leader (probably the committee chair) and contact the mom via certified mail. I also think I need to verify that the popcorn was, in fact, delivered. After all, if it's sitting in the basement, he can just give it back to me and we'll sell it in the spring. I'll hold back the prize card for now and see where this goes over the next couple of weeks. Thank you all for your advice, I greatly appreciate it.

[cubscoutmom3]

Hi- I have been in Cub Scouts for 8 years and these problems mentioned seem to happen all the time. It is a hard decision to make on what to do. But one thing that I think is real important is DO NOT MAKE THE CHILD SUFFER FOR HIS PARENT"S ACTION. We are in scouting for the children. It is not the child's fault on how his elders handle things. This is a hard call to make. Take Care, Yours in Scouting , Sandy

[evmori]

cubscoutmom3,

I don't agree. The fundraiser was for the Den. The boy is a member of the Den, not his parents. His parents might have sold the bulk of the popcorn but it is still the responsibility of the boy to turn the money in. You are correct, this is a hard decision to make. While it might not be the boys fault, it's lesson time for the boy & mom & dad. If you sold it, you owe for it. Simple.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[committeechair]

The safest way to handle the popcorn sell is to get all money first.

There is a deadline that we must turn in our orders. This is the date our Scouts are told to bring in all money with their orders. I know, the money itself is not due until later. BUT! All boys are told to get payments with the orders. People will understand. We are an non-profit organization that is raising money, not the local grocery store that will give the popcorn to them. This is no different than if they ordered from a catalog, or a store over the phone. Payment is expected up front. Boys who don't have all their money when they turn in their orders must sit down and figure out who they didn't get money from. We live in a small town. Our troop has only about 15 boys who regularly sell popcorn. We cannot afford to pick up the tab for a kid who may have spent the money given for the popcorn or just didn't get the money. In the past we had people say "We decided we don't want to buy it." And who gets stuck paying for the popcorn? Usually the Cubmaster/Scoutmaster/Leader, etc.

Next year,when the packets are handed out, just make the announcment that money must be collected with the orders, or the orders won't be placed. A great burden will be lifted! Scouts honor!

Oh, and we don't give our boys the 'prizes.' You have the option of getting money or prizes, but you must tell your 'popcorn Colonal' I think (I am not the one who has done the popcorn stuff). If you sign a

form early that says your unit will be selling popcorn in the fall and you list a person to be in charge you will also get an extra percentage. In our troop we have so many boys who depend on this money for camps. We choose to get the money instead of prizes, plus we give them the extra amount for committing our unit early. One kid and his brother made $1000 just in their cut. Whatever is earned through popcorn, we hold the money. The boys can only use the money for camp (summer/winter/or monthly camping), uniforms, books, or Scout related supplies.