Fund Raising Question

[Bob White]

Ed Mori,

 

I was searching for some past info when I came upon a post of April 21 that I had not seen before. In it you wrote the following...

"Bob White,

You posted in this thread that mentioning the BSA in a raffle fundraiser held by the CO is against the fundraising policy set forht by the BSA. In the thread about "Wine Tasting as a Fundraiser" you seemed to think this was OK since there were probably no Scouts present. So from what I gather, as long as their are no Scouts present or the BSA isn't mentioned in a fundraiser held by the CO, then it makes no difference what the CO is doing to raise money, according to you. WOW! I'm flabergasted! Where are your morals!"

 

Well Ed this is a new low even for you. You took two posts of mine from April 14, 2003, where I quoted the fundraising policies of the BSA that prohibits Units from holding raffles, and another one from the same date regarding Wine Tasting as a fundraiser. In it I said I was unaware of any BSA policy prohibiting such an activity as long as scouts were not present, and you created that heap of dribble which you attested to me.

 

You took two policies of the BSA, misrepresent it as my personal opinion and then draw an irrelevant conclusion which you used to question my personal morals. Had you one iota of credibility in your person you would have also included what I wrote in the next paragraph. "Would I support such an activity where I live, probably not, but I try not to impose my personal choices on those in other communities without more information."

 

You obviously have no problem doing that.

 

Your post was cowardly and deceitful. Since you have shown yourself so knowledgable in the area of biblical quotes in the past I am surprised you missed this on "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour."

 

You owe the members of this board an apology for misrepresenting what I wrote, in order to support an opinion which you have based entirely on a lack of knowledge of the policies of the BSA program, and for attacking an individual just for refering to those policies.

 

Where are my morals? Ed where are yours? You should be ashamed!

 

Bob White

[evmori]

Bob,

All I was doing was refering to what you had posted previously. I didn't pay attention to the dates & that really has no bearing on this discussion.

 

No malice intended. I was only wondering where you were coming from. I quoted no BSA policy. I only was stating what I understand from your posts. If I was in error, I apologize.

 

A new low? What was my previous low? It seems to me that if anyone disagrees with you or your interpretation of BSA policy, that person is wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and there are BSA policies that are open to interpertation. Since I can't quote BSA policy chapter & verse like you I can't give you specific examples.

 

Yes I know the bible fairly well. I see nowhere where I beared false witness toward you. As far as my morals, if you would like to debate morals with me, pick the time & place & I'll be there.

 

You also seem to have an issue with my credibility. Interesting! Is that because you & I have different opinions or is it that I don't agree with you?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

You just don't get it do you Ed,

I posted the contents of two BSA policies, and you make a conclusion from it that I have no morals. That was out of line, but I should have expected that.

 

Bob White

 

 

[evmori]

Get what Bob? Sounds to me like the pot calling the kettle black! You don't seem to like it when someone questions your opinions but it's OK for you to question others opinions. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen Bob.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dsteele]

Hmmm . . .

 

I don't think a water bucket is going to work on this one. I wish I had ordered those indian pumps like the ranger asked me to.

 

DS

[Bob White]

My apologies to the other posters. When Ed attacked me personally in his post for sharing the contents of the BSA policies, I should have used the personal messsaging to respond and not the public board. I forget that option was available to me. I will PM Ed on this instead.

 

BW

 

[dsteele]

Thanks, Bob. But actually I was serious. Our ranger needs the indian pumps. The ones out there are broken.

 

Thanks for all that you guys do for Scouting. I mean it.

 

DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

[evmori]

Bob,

And your response wasn't a personal attack on me?

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SM406]

Is it a national policy that requires Councils to approve unit fund raisers? Or does it vary from Council to Council whither they require approval? Some very knowledgeable people in my Council say that Units do not need our Council approval for Unit fund raising.

 

SM406

 

[Bob White]

Nation gives local councils the authority to approve the use of the BSA trademarks namely the uniform name and insignias of the scouting program. The local unit units do not have legal authority to use the image of scouting woithout permission as the unit does not own the image or name of scouting. The local legal entity is the council.

 

You are not asking the council if you can do the fundraiser. You are asking if you can look like scouts and mention scouting during the promotion, the activity, and the delivery of products.

 

If you use the name or image of the BSA without permission you could find yourself in violation of the law and operating the event without liability insurance from the BSA. S if a customer were to be injured or made ill from participating in the event every adult involved could be held personally liable.

 

So you can do a fundraiser without notifying council but the question becomes...to paraphrase dirty Harry, "So tell me do feel lucky today?" because just one little thing needs to go wrong and you could find yourself in a world of trouble.

 

Hope this explains it.

Bob White

[jbroganjr]

Stirring the pot (pardon the pun)

 

As for returning a trailer vs. paying for electricity. If the CO donates money or outright buys a trailer to support its scouting unit, why wouldn't you accept it. The BSA does not charter with groups like the internation brotherhood of drug dealers, mostly churches and civic organizations, who legally, run raffle and bingo. The argument that you would return the trailer, but still meet in the building funded by the same CO and whose utilities are paid from the same manner of fundraiser is really duplicitious, no?

As for the right of the scout unit to know how the CO operates its own budget and fundraising, is not just a bit cheeky, but I think the rolls of have somehow been confused. The CO owns the unit, it is not the responsiblity of the CC or SM to deny whatever funding from the CO at all, as the CO owns the unit. In fact the CO could use this as way of removing the volunteer from the unit, with just cause.

In fact, the CO should be commmended for trying to help fund its unit, as there are many (a majority???) who receive no funding at all from the CO. And if the SM or CC or scouter feel so repugnant about raffles and bingos or games of chance that CO like churches, VFW or American Legion use, then technically, that scouter is not following the aims and means of the CO, even if he/she does follow scouting.

I commend ASM14 CO for finding a way to pursue their idea of fundraising, and find it very scouting like that they have will use the proceeds from this event to not only fund their unit, but benefit other youth organizations as well

[dsteele]

That's a great point. The chartered organization holds the charter for the unit, the unit does not hold the charter for the organization.

 

In other words, how the charter partner (or CO) wichever you prefer, raises and spends it's money is none of the troop's business. Not that you can't know, but you don't have to worry about it. If they want to buy something for or give money to the troop, you don't need to be concerned about where it came from. Unless you are indeed chartered by drug dealers, etc.

 

One caveat is that the charter partner can't hold a "Bingo Night for Boy Scouts" or use the BSA name like that without permission, even if the proceeds are going to the troop. They can't raise money using the name of the Boy Scouts of America without permission from the Boy Scouts of America.

 

If they normally hold a raffle or a bingo night, or even hold a special one and choose to give the proceeds or part of the proceeds to their troop, that's their choice.

 

The other side of the coin, however, is that it is the business of the charter partner (if they choose to do so) to have a say in how the troop raises and spends it's money. But that's a different issue.

 

DS

[Advisor Jim]

We all need to read and follow the B.S.A. rules. I advise a Venturing Crew, our trips cost alot of money but we manage to make enough to help out with costs of trips with our fund raisers.

my personal opinion is that your CO is still chartered by national so they would have to follow B.S.A. rules.

 

Just have them give you a cash donation

 

Jim

Advisor

Venturing Crew 80

[scoutldr]

Just attended a concert at the local amphitheater. The main concession stand was being manned by volunteers from the "Friends of Boy Scout Troop XXX" (I know that is true, because the sign said so). Every customer was being thanked for "supporting the Boy Scouts." Every customer walked away with a puzzled look. Only adults over 21 were allowed to work the stand, since beer and wine were being served. I did recognize some fellow registered Scouters, even though they were not in uniform. Was this a Unit Fundraiser, approved by Council. Probably not. Did the customer understand the difference? Assuredly not.

 

By the way, the concert was nearly sold out and the beer lines were long all night. The "friends" of the unit probably made a fortune for about 4 hours work. Am I jealous? Yeah. And I didn't mind so much being ripped off 10 bucks for a Diet Pepsi and a soft pretzel (with salt).

[ASM514]

Well, I started this post so I guess I will end it. My company held that raffle for that computer and we raised $10,000 with each ticket being sold at $5.00. Council was very happy with what we donated to them. End of conversation. Looking forward to our next raffle.

 

ASM514