Sports & Boy Scouts

[Eagle Foot]

Sound familiar? My ASM and I were discussing the new scout patrol in our troop or the lack of. We have 6 new cross overs and only 2 to 3 have show up at the last 2-troop meetings since coming aboard. I realize it may be a little pre-mature to worry about but its worth a heads up to watch. The boys and the parents have all been informed that the troop meets every week and that there is a program for these new scouts that will help them become part of the troop and that they will be the ones running the troop with the other scouts. The new scouts are all playing baseball and wont be available until June.

 

This is news to me (SM) I agree that all things are workable, but having a patrol with only 2 to 3 scouts does not work. My ASM says its only baseball and BSA is not like the militarytheyll be back in June and they will just have to make up what they missed. My feelings on this are if they are out until June a month and a half this puts the new patrol in a position to where it cannot function as a patrol and the boys will have to be put into the other two patrols.

 

How have other troops worked with this problem ?I feel that the Scout needs to decide as do the parentsBSA or baseballor some where in-between. I know as a coach I would want to know thiseither you play or you dont. If you miss practice you cant play we dont do this in BSA but if the scouts are not there why put the others in a hardshipblend them in, form a new patrol when the others come back.???

 

[evmori]

In this case, I would integrate the new Scouts into an existing patrol & have the ASM asssigned to the New Scout Patrol work with the patrol you assign them to. When and if the others return, you can restructure if you want to or just integrate those returning Scouts into existing patrol(s).

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SR540Beaver]

Take it from a Dad who's son played very competitive baseball for 4 years (prior to joining as a Webelos this year), the same thing will happen next year too. If these same boys play baseball next year, they will miss scout meetings until it is over. We would begin practice in late February as the season would begin in April. Sometimes we practiced 3 or 4 times a week for a couple of hours each. Games started in April and were not over unitl the last week of June. We played 2 to 3 times a week. the practice would slack of during the season, but we still had them some. Also, we played tournaments about every other weekend. On tournament weekends, the boys all swapped and had sleep overs at other kids houses. Obvioulsy when the boys are together that much, a real team environment is established. While I do not want to go back to that environment (especially for 7 nd 8 year old boys) that is my biggest gripe with scouting. We expect the same commitment as sports, without the same effort. In Cubs, we meet one time a week for one hour. For the ones who actually do show up, half the hour is spent trying to get them to behave and pay attention. Sports called for a lot of commitment and in return built commitment in to the team structure. We all counted on each other. Also, there were short term and long term goals. Each game you either won or lost. At the end of a tournament or season, you either took a trophy and bragging rights home or you didn't. They quickly connected the time spent in practice to the success on the field and were willing to be there each and every time. Plus, if you didn't pull your weight, you could ride the pine or be looking for another team next season. While it isn't impossible, I don't know how you duplicate the same level of commitment in a program where uniforming is optional, you work at your own pace, you meet once a week and amp once a month. It can be such a leisurely pace that kids and parents take a take it or leave it attitude. Hey, if he doesn't show up for a month or make the next three campouts, he is still on the team.

 

Now, I'm not advocating sports over scouts. I like everyone else wishes the commitment were just as strong in scouts. I've seen both sides of the fence now and just wanted to pass on my perspective of why this situation happens. How we combat it, I'm not sure either....yet.

[acco40]

Our culture, sadly (my opinion) emphasizes sports over many other endeavors (academics, scouting, etc.). Because of the competitive nature of some sports many of the kids are either turned on or off by sports.

 

Sports and scouting can co-exist. There are wrestlers, baseball, football, soccer, basketball and here in Michigan, hockey players in our troop. Some have asked to leave campouts early Sunday morning to attend their games. I let the other boys decide (they always agree). It should not be sports vs. scouts but sports & scouts.

 

With Eagle Foot's predicament I would make sure the parents & boys know the ramifications of missing Scouts during this time (slower advancement, not prepared for summer camp, etc.) but it is their decision to make. The boys will find out soon enough which endeavors they would like to pursue. I agree with Ed on what to do with the new Scouts (making sure the boys are okay with it).

 

In our troop we had three new boys crossover and we had them join a patrol with boys with one year of experience. Not a "new" scout patrol in the classic sense, but not exactly experienced either. It is working out fine so far.

[silver-shark]

If we don't give the boys the option and free choice to do mulitple activities we are going to lose them, especially the older they get.

 

Between a yearly sports schedule, including baseball, soccer, football, and basketball, all of which are equally important to a childs physical and emotional development, then later band, other clubs, work, and girls, we are always in competition for the boys time.

 

So what can we do? We can have a more exciting program to get them there, reschedule your meeting date and time so that as many boys as possible can attend, or do both. We have our meetings on Sunday afternoon. There is no sports competition here at that time, except my missing NFL games and NASCAR races. I tape them and watch later though, so even that works out.

 

Additionally, I don't think you will actually have these new scouts miss ALL meetings until baseball is over. They generally don't play on the same nights over and over, at leaset here that's how it works.

 

Can you make a patrol work with only 2 to 3 boys present? Sure you can. In fact, with a Troop Guide or Instructor they will be able to get more requirements out of the way that generally take longer to rotate through. Cooking requirements for example. As long as you have a PL and someone to follow him, you have the basic requirements for a patrol.

 

Also, is your program so structured that it can't be modified to accomodate these boys by possibly learning the missed skills at a future campout during down time? Do you have days built into the schedule as make up days for meetings missed? Baseball or not, all boys will miss some meetings.

[Twocubdad]

KWC -

 

Playing a sport at that level can be a great experience -- if you can play at that level. But I don't believe that would be a good thing for Scouting.

 

In the first place are the numbers. In our town of about 20,000, we have one elementary school of 1200 kids. We support one baseball team playing at that level. So that's 12-15 kids with that kind of commitment to baseball. From the same population, we probably have 150 -175 boys in Cub Scouts. (I'm looking only at the elementary school here, simply because I know these numbers.) By the way, from the same school, we also have recreational baseball league with probably 250 kids playing. Still more play in YMCA and church leagues. It's classic economics. As the cost goes up, the number of buyers goes down. Would you prefer a troop of four boys meeting four nights a week, camping every weekend, or a troop of 40, meeting on a more usual schedule?

 

The other issue is accommodation. Your son was able to join Scouts as a Webelos with no prior Scouting experience. Would a competitive baseball team offered the same opportunity to a boy with no baseball skills but who just showed up and wanted to give baseball a try? What if he showed up in a wheelchair? What if he joined the team only with the condition that he miss Wednesday practice and Saturday games due to church commitments?

[hops_scout]

Here is how I, as a 14 year old, feeling on this:

 

Sports and scouts are an essential part of my life. Ussually, sports come before scouts because I play on school teams and if it is a game, I'll get in trouble for not going. I think if we were having a practice and a campout on the same weekend, I would probably be able to go on the campout. I dont know, hasnt happened yet. Some boys are more suited for sports while others are more suited for scouts. Some, like I, are in the middle. They need both.

[Twocubdad]

Right on, hops. Finding a balance that you and your family are comfortable is the key.

[dan]

SPORTS COMES BEFORE SCOUTS

HOPS not picking on you. But most people say this. And I do not get it. Will sports make you a better person than scouts! NOT a chance! (TEAMWORK in baseball? come on) Which should be a better teacher scouts or sports.

I think Scouts should be more like sports, if you do not show up for pratice (meetings)or game (campouts/service projects) you can not play (advance, camp)

May lose sme scouts but or well, BSA will survive. And would be better for it!

[red feather]

Ditto with Ev and Hops.

 

While sports tends to lean on the 'team' structure more than scouting does, scouting in the long run teaches more on how to work together to accomplish a given task. Individual advancement and learning is what scouting offers. No matter what the persons speed is they can still reach their goal and feel good about the accomplishment of that goal.

 

Work with the young scouts (and the older scouts) to enable them to get the most out of scouting that they can. It is most definitely worth the effort to do so and watch them advance through scouting and grow in a way that they would not be able to otherwise.

 

yis

[Eamonn]

Scouts and Scouting have always been very important to me, and even as a young boy Scouts was "My Thing"

For three years I coached soccer, a super game which I love to watch, play and talk about.

At the same time I was also a Cubmaster.

Many a time a boy would come to me and say that he had to leave early or come late to the Cub Scout meeting,due to soccer, but not once did a boy come and say, that he had to leave soccer early or late due to a Scout meeting.

Some people will complain about the cost of a Scout uniform and the cost of Scouting. But think nothing of buying soccer boots that cost over $100.00 And yes kids feet grow too.

However, we must never lose sight of our mission.

Scouting is here for all the boys, and ought to be here when they need / want it.

Boys like hops -scout, can work it out, others will, but it may take time.

Leaders like evmori, will help them.

Dan, the BSA, is NEVER BETTER OFF, EVEN WHEN WE LOSE ONE BOY.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[matuawarrior]

When the time comes for my scouts or venturers to play their chosen sport. I always tell them to go for the gold and be the best you can be on the field or the court. They are only gone for a short time not forever.

 

If the Scout/Venturer is a Leader. Then his/her assistant takes over for the period their gone. Some of them even make it to camps after their games, even if it's for one night. The rest of the troopies and jr. leaders don't mind. They're happy to see their peers make it out to camp.

 

I even go the extra mile by trying to attend their home games. Mind you, I don't make every game but do make some games. I know this makes the Scout/Venturer feel their not forgotten plus I get to see my scouts have fun at something that they also enjoy. I even go in my red activity shirt or troop jersey. Win or lose, I still go up and shake my scouts hand and even the other players.

 

This has helped us network with the sports community. Not just, sports do I have scouts involved with, but also JROTC. That takes up alot of time but its worth having them broaden their horizons.

 

It should not be about Scouting Vs. Them (sports, JROTC, etc. .). We will certainly lose the youth when we force them and their parents to choose . Yes, we do have to make our programs more challenging and FUN.

 

Matua

 

 

 

[scoutldr]

Right on, Matua. If you force them to choose, you frequently will be disappointed! Some Scouting is better than no Scouting. I see today's youth struggling to juggle all of their parents' expectations, including sports, school, scouts, church, etc. Sometimes, something falls off their plates. I don't criticise or embarrass them. I encourage them to do their best at whatever they choose to do, and they are welcome at any Troop activity at any time...if they have competing priorities for their time, I wish them well and make sure they know they are missed. They usually come back. The only thing I get on their case for is if they tell their patrol they will do something or be somewhere and then don't show up without letting someone know. That's just rude and is not excusable.

[fboisseau]

As the parent of a boy that is in both travel soccer (the upper level of soccer for his age level) and Scouts, I do not see this as a struggle between Scouts and soccer. Instead I see this a learning experience on how to balance conflicting calls on our time and prioritizing those items.

 

For example during soccer season, I expect him to forgo camp outs and meetings if necessary because of conflicts between the two. This is not because I value soccer over Scouts, the reverse is actually true. It is because his responsibilities to the team are greater. If he lets his patrol know that he will not be there they can work around it. On the other hand it would be harder for his team to work around the fact he his not there, because he has a position of responsibility (a position that he trains for and plays) that would have to be filled by another player. Also his not being there will cause his teams number of substitutes to be less. This means longer play time for each player and less chance to rest. This could mean that they would lose the game from exhaustion.

 

On the other hand if he decide he wanted to be PL, I would have to tell he that in order to do that he will have to drop soccer, because he would need to make a comment to be at all meetings and camp outs. Since he cannot make this commitment and stay in soccer, he would have to give up soccer.

 

One of Scouts purpose is to teach responsibility and part of that is teaching how to juggle conflicting responsibilities and how to determine which one is more important or to say no to one when they cannot be reconciled. If we say sport or Scouts we lose a chance to teach this lesson. Instead of telling a Scout to pick sports or Scouts, talk to them about how they can work to reconcile the two. Some ideas of how this can be done is coming to the meeting after/before practice to get information or calling their patrol leader the next night to get the information handed out at the meeting. If they need a position of responsibility suggest that they work as a den chief for a den that meets when they do not have practice/games or maybe working on the news letter/web page with information provide by the troop scribe.

 

[mk9750]

A hearty hurray for fboisseau! I couldn't agree more!

 

I don't want to diminish the value that just plan 'ole having fun is, but I've always believed that all of teenage life is about learning and experimenting. A boy doesn't date someone because he will marry her, he dates to practice the skills he will need to be a good husband when it is time. A boy doesn't take on a job because it will be a career, he does it to learn what being in the workforce is like, and what is expected of him (well, and to make money to date the girl, too!). And he doesn't take on too many responsiblities because all of them have to be done. He does it because somewhere along his route to manhood, he has to find out how much he can handle, and how to deal with it when he takes on too much. Most of us grownups know that we often choose to accept, or are force to accept, nore than we can deal with. Somehow, we have to learn to prioritize it. There is no better time to learn than as a teenager, when what's at stake is a soccer game, or a meal at a campout, or being late for a party. Later in life, if these skills aren't learned, the consequences become our business's sucess, or not having money to buy groceries, or coming late to work.

 

I encourage all of our Scouts to get involved in as much as they can. Every experience helps create the man they will be. The practice juggling differnet responsiblities is important, and I think it is suprising how many kids actually handle these stresses well.

 

As I mentioned in another thread, and in support of your point, we make each Scout responsible for being as active as they commit to in advance. At the SM conference and B of R, we ask each boy how active they expect to be while pursuing his next rank. If he is active in sports or band, and they are "in season", he usually tells us that he probably won't be to too many meetings or campouts. As long as he gets to the ones he can, we put no pressure on him (as long as his leadership responsiblities are met or delegated). In the long run, we see this working out well for the Troop and the indivual.

 

What to do with the 2 or 3 remaining Scouts is tough. If they were more experienced, I'd leave them in their own Patrol. But being new, even with a good Guide, I think they are being asked to pay too high a price for the decision of others. I think I'd give them the benefit of association with another established Patrol. When the other guys come back, maybe the guys who were there can get back with them and take over leadership of the Patrol, having gained some experience during the athletes' absence. This doesn't provide the athletes the chance to lead a new Scout Patrol, but I think that is one of the consequences of their choice to be so active in Baseball at the exclusion of Scouts.

 

Good luck to you!

 

Mark