UPS and Intel end support of BSA

[Horizon]

Packsaddle - my the boy would never survive the necessary committee meetings ( you know us Presbyterians - we need our committees to survive).

[Horizon]

Seattle - you should read your link. LUG is an overblown situation, more experimentation occurs among women NOT in college as well. Finally, it is self reported sexual activity data,with its own issues of validity. It only hits the news because it is about lesbians in college.

 

I will believe that gays have all of this power when gay children are no longer killing themselves after constant bullying for their more moral betters, and when gay bashing is no longer a tolerated activity in our communities.

[moosetracker]

I don't see a strong homosexual unit, in sort of this "power" unit SP is trying to propose in a type of fearmongering of the future..

 

But, I could see a unit or two ending up heavy with scouts who are homosexual at least until all of society get comfortable with acceptance.. I have heard of a few units heavy with scouts with physical disabilities in the same way.. A unit welcomes a few scouts with disabilities, some other families with children of disabilities hear this unit is welcoming and a positive experience for their son so join. Maybe the original boys of the troop without disabilities stay, or maybe not.. But, new scouts looking for a troop feel out of place and choose a different troop.. The troop is open to everyone, but find themselves as more of a specialty troop.. Sad, but I am sure this sort of sorting happens with black or latino scouts also, where there are communities that have their black troop with a neighboring white troop..

 

If this happens with homosexual scouts, it is both good and bad in my opinion.. My take is probably not in sync with SP's opinion.. It would still be good as they have a program that lets them to learn self-confidence and belonging.. But, I think if it stays more mixed the kids would benefit from learning to accept each other and learn that they all have much more in common then they do differences..

[packsaddle]

Horizon, "...we need our committees to survive." Man, after AZMike's illumination of similar corporate 'activities', I'm surprised at a confession like that.

But it is REALLY interesting. Maybe I need to reconsider a return to my old Presbyterian Church?

[BSA24]

> You might want to consider the concept represented by the term LUG --- Lesbian Until Graduation.

 

Thank you for today's weather report, Chicken Little.

 

Note that in other scouting association where gays are allowed, which is ALL OF THEM, none of this has occurred. Those countries have no homo takeover going on, young men have not been "recruited", and all conservative's paranoid fears have never been realized.

 

The evidence shows that nothing will happen.

[SeattlePioneer]

Sure, BSA 24.

 

 

We are making huge changes in our culture but you claim that will have no effect on the culture.

 

 

Much the same thing was claimed about making divorce more available. The result has been that the culture has been transformed.

 

Your claim that such things aren't happening in other countries could also be said to support BSA's child molestation issues thirty years ago --- BSA could look with pride at the methods used to keep child molesters out of Scouting.

 

American families have been radically transformed by divorce in recent decades, and will no doubt continue to be tranformed by gay marriage, lesbian marriage, plural marriage and whatever else comes down the pike.

 

 

But thank you for your report, Pollyanna.

[acco40]

Seattle - there has always been societal pressure, peer pressure and even hormonal pressure to do certain activities that are not necessarily in line with the Scout Oath and Law.

 

I just don't see any difference from gay individuals and heterosexual individuals wrt to that. Personally, I don't want my boys, well they are not 20 and 22, growing up to demonize gays. But I do want them to value certain behavior - those of the Oath and Law. My boys actually had a homosexual scoutmaster for a period of time - they just don't know it yet.

[5scoutmom]

I am boggled by this thread.

 

I know many gay men and women and not one of them is a pedophile. I am sure that there are gays who molest children, but the vast majority of men who molest and abuse children self-identify as straight. Many scouters who were outed as abusers were married men with families so that's not even a guarantee of safety for your children. I believe that there is one morality and that gayness, in and of itself, is not immoral. Child molestation on the other hand is not only immoral but illegal and child molesters should be locked away for life. That said, I do not believe that being gay should disqualify someone from being a scouter.

 

The town I live in is very diverse, socio-economically, religously, racially, ethnically and in many other ways. I have been involved in scouting for 15 years. We lost families when the Dale decision came down and my husband and I agonized over whether we should stay in. We decided that scouting was good for our sons and that we would not knowingly discriminate against anyone just because they were gay. Over the years, people have told the boys that they won't buy popcorn or contribute because of the gay issue. I always tell them that if they feel that way, they should write to BSA National but that the money or food we are collecting is going to stay in our town to help our residents and we don't discriminate. Many times, the person reconsiders and donates to our troop, in our town. Scouting is local.

 

This is the forum where we can express our opinions. I see from prior posts that others don't share my opinion but we are all adults and can agree to disagree. However, I think and hope that the one thing we all have in common is that we care for and about scouting and want it to thrive...

 

 

[Eagle732]

I don't want David Duke, Reverend Wright or Barney Frank being the Scoutmaster of my son's troop. I also would not want to be part of a troop sponsored by the Black Panthers or the Westboro Baptist Church. I don't believe any of them have the moral standards I want my son to be exposed to. How hard is that to understand? The people who are beating the drum for gay men to be SMs would be jumping made if a Klansman was running a unit.

[bigbovine]

After reading and thinking and rereading, and after deciding on whether being seen as a "Homophobic, Conservative, Bigoted, Closeminded, etc..." person would be worth any comments I may make,I came to the realization that those professing tolerance seem to be the least tolerant of all. What some seem to not undersand is tolerating doesn't mean acceptance. I understand there are those who have homosexual desires. However, in a biblical sense, it is a sin to act upon them. Just as it is a sin to act on other carnal desires we may have. It takes a real commitment and faith to rise above these desires.

 

Being that, outside of Church, Scouting seemed to be an organization that followed along my beliefs. I understand there are different faiths in BSA, and at Woodbadge experienced a non denominational, multireligious non religious ceremony. That was very different and bothered me at first. Then I realized that there were many different types in the group. Even though I didn't like it, I realized I am not in BSA for it's religious services.

 

But morality is Black and White. What is wrong is wrong. Situational morality, or gray area, is a way to rationalize the wrong someone has done. As long as people do something that is wrong but don't want the guilt associated, they will continue to try to make it seem ok to do it.

 

At some point people draw a line of what they will accept. For some, allowing homosexuals to openly be in Scouts is that point. I know of a few that refuse to stay in scouts based on the religious ceremony they witnessed in Woodbadge. I know some that would join if they would just allow alcohol on outings by adults. There are so many things out there, the question is were does your tolerance and acceptance divide. That is the breaking point.

 

In the end I have this to say. If you do not like the current policy that much, change it in a civil manner or leave BSA. Do not demonize those that disagree. If you do you are more wrong than the ones you call names. I have often thought of how much more fun my boys and I could have if not confined by BSA rules, but we wouldn't have the association with those of like mind in our outdoor activities. I attend my church's services for my soul's well being. If at some point BSA policies interfear with my faith, that will be my que to leave. This is not the only thing that would make me leave, but if BSA openly pushes the homosexual agenda, that is when I leave.

[moosetracker]

So bigbovine, shouldn't you leave your church since the Episcapol Church down the street has homosexual clergymen?.. If not, what would be the problem with your troop not allowing homosexual Scoutleaders, but the troop down the street allowing them..

 

[JoeBob]

moosetrackher, seems you missed the point of BigBovine's post:

 

"If you do not like the current policy that much, change it in a civil manner or leave BSA. Do not demonize those that disagree. If you do you are more wrong than the ones you call names."

 

If BSA standards are so hard for you to tolerate, don't.

 

Bye!

[moosetracker]

Nope, I belive in change from within.. Leaving would be like moving to Canada, then trying to change the policies in the US.. So I am perfectly happy staying as an inside irritant.

[acco40]

Does the BSA "openly push the Catholic agenda" by allowing Catholics to join the BSA?

 

But morality is Black and White. What is wrong is wrong. Won't get too many arguments here but who decides?

 

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. We'd sure have a lot of one eyed, or even blind, Scoutmasters it we followed that set of morals.

 

The BSA, as they state, is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Therefore, why not allow gays, shellfish eaters, police officers who work on the Sabbath, divorcees, those who wear garments mingled with linen and wool, clean shaven folks, unclean women (should we ban female leaders for seven days every month?), those who curse, adulterers, gossipers, etc. but have them try to live by the Scout Oath and Law? Now that's a novel idea!

[CalicoPenn]

I'm actually more afraid of avowed Republicans serving as Scoutmasters than gay men. :-)