UPS and Intel end support of BSA

[qwazse]

And I frankly wonder how an Eagle scout is now perceived. I would have to advise an Eagle scout to not highlight this acheivement if he were to apply for a position.

 

Such advise will undermine the lad's prospects for a job in even the most antipathic company. SA, keep telling the boy to list all of his awards and recognitions on those resumes.

 

For one interview, a line on my resume (not ES) that my boss thought was very controversial probably helped get me the job. I was asked directly about it, as a result, it extended the conversation and allowed me to reveal more about my character.

 

You do know that there are donors out there who are sympathetic to our loss of contributions due to the day's PC torch-burning corporate villagers? So what will really matter is BSA's total endowment at the end of each successive year.

[WasE61]

If you really want the policy to change, then the SM's an ASM's should change it. All you have to do is stop working until the policy is changed. Take a vote of the boys...then if agreed, send this...following that whole "boy led" mantra.

 

Dear BSA,

 

Were are adult leaders for Troop XX in City, State. Our Troop has taken a vote. Until the admission policy on gay members changes, all activity in this troop will cease.

 

Regards,

 

 

 

After 10,000 or so of those showed up in Irving...by email...on the same day...it would take about 30 seconds for Irving to have a CtJM (Come to Jesus Moment).

 

This would do a couple of things...1) the public would view Irving as that bad guys, and 2) the public would view the local troop leaders/CO's/Scouts as the good guys.

 

 

Not that yall are interested in that.

 

[scoutingagain]

I was speaking of my specific organization where the initial screening of resume's is done by someone I know not to be sypathetic to BSA's position. Not in general.

 

I will still advise someone to "customize" their resume to be as attractive as possible for the specific position and hiring organization. Unfortunatley, I believe that would now have to consider whether or not to list ES.

 

And of course I know there are individual and institions that agree with the BSA, but they are fewer and fewer. The bigger quesiton is does the BSA want to be a niche youth organization serving a shrinking number people that agree with their current policy or to they want to be a national organization serving the broadest possible number of youth?

 

SA

 

 

 

 

 

 

[qwazse]

If you've turned in your Eagle, I guess it would be wise to strike it from your resume.

 

But I would not even countenance any organization that would slight a candidate for reporting youth awards that reflect his/her leadership experience. Would I want to work for someone who doesn't value candidates whose definition of self begins with "Trustworthy?"

[ntrog8r]

With some trepidation I enter the discussion...

 

Should values be selected and taught based on donors, end of year accounts, money, or even a majority? If NAMBLA or the KKK agreed to provide twice the revenues of current endowments would we consider adopting their values? If a majority of folks still said slavery was acceptable should our values change?

 

I think we would all be better served by keeping the discussion focused on what values are right and how policies should reflect right values. Frankly, I don't think it should matter to the discussion how much money is gained or lost based on BSA policies. If we started getting more money because of the policy do we then say its right on and stop the discussion? This is a values-centric organization. If we have devolve the discussion to bottom line, that is a message to the youth we serve as well.

 

This is a complex issue with a lot a factors that effect people's positions. We have youth protection concerns, inclusion vice exclusion, religious, moral, ethical, arguments that swirl around this. For many people (on both sides of the issue) there is no room for disagreement. But I suspect for the majority its not so black and white of an issue and there is still a lot of room for discussion and decision-making. I just hope we model how to have constructive discussions on hot topics well - and keep the money out of it.

 

Keeping the Aims of Scouting in mind: character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. I hope number 1 precludes financial influence ("Brand Image" being different and a valid concern). Though I think number 2 leaves plenty of room for choosing who you do business with.

[Tokala]

A much as the organization is values-based, it's driven by membership and money. Those are always the two criteria that National holds the Councils responsible to maintain. Fail in these 2 areas and you lose your charter. So even the National office isn't as concerned about how well we teach the values of Scouting. You're local program can struggle or be horrible and you'll keep your charter. Membership and money goals aren't met then you come under scrutiny.

 

The United Way reduced funds drastically and in some places totally after the Dale case. Now we're seeing another round of reduced funding. I suspect the organization will manage to keep functioning. At some point we might hit a critical point where the organization both locally and nationally can't raise the funding to offer to teach these values.

 

I'd like to hear from National how they've received additional funding from others that offset the losses from UPS, Intel and the United Way. That would make me feel more confident in their management of the situation. Right now Irving seems to be a ghost town.

[scoutingagain]

"Would I want to work for someone who doesn't value candidates whose definition of self begins with "Trustworthy?"

 

 

Well that leaves out the BSA...but I hear Chick-Fil-A is hiring.

 

SA

 

 

[packsaddle]

"Right now Irving seems to be a ghost town."

Reminds me of a movie..."I see dead people..."

[JoeBob]

Part of the eMail I sent to UPS:

 

"UPS thinks it is okay for two gay men to take 5 or 6 eleven year old boys into the woods? Really? Is your son going to be on that trip?

FedEx has gained me as a customer."

 

May not have much impact. But it might be enlightening.

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally I think there might be a good deal to recommend a policy of scaling back billion dollar Scouting Disneyland projects being built around the country.

 

I prefer funding local Scout camps myself.

[Eagledad]

>>I'd like to hear from National how they've received additional funding from others that offset the losses from UPS, Intel and the United Way.

 

It's not about big company donors or membership like most people think, it's the big donor alumni. A vast amount of support comes from alumni and it's that support that the BSA is resting (has always rested) it hat on. It's hard to know the tipping point of pop culture morality over the support of aging alumni, but you can be assured that money tips the scale.

 

Barry

[Papadaddy]

JoeBob...way to enhance our public image, there bunky! And in response to WasE61...I don't think Irving cares how many letters they get, as long as the registration checks keep coming in to fund their salaries. All Scouting is local...will your 11 year olds understand why they can't go camping any more?

[Tokala]

SeattlePioneer, I couldn't agree more!

[scoutingagain]

You get to put your name on a big Disneylike facility/pavillion/dining hall etc.

 

So far I havn't seen the "John Smith" Scout Executive Salary.

 

Folks will donate for the alledged use of funds for camps, facilities etc. but it's hard to ask for donations to pay an executive salary.

 

SA

 

 

[DeanRx]

While I agree that we are a values based organization, I disagree that you can disconnect those values from other issues such as membership, funding, and corporate branding.

 

BSA is a business... its a non-profit business, but a business just the same. If it fails as a business, then you can discuss values all you want, but you will no longer have a program to deliver said values.

 

A business thrives by responding to market demands. It gains and retains customers by understanding those customer's needs. The battleground for BSA seems to be WHO are the customers they are wanting to serve? Is it the existing BSA membership? Is it the overwhelmingly conservative values based organizations that charter the majority of their units? or is it broader society as a whole?

 

Because, from what I see, those three entities have some overlaping "needs", but also some very divergent "needs" as customers of the BSA. Some would even argue that certain "needs" are mutually exclusive.

 

Now, I'm all for scouting at the local level only. But, those local scouts still need a place to camp, do scout-craft, have 'adventure', and learn the values the program is trying to teach! Without proper funding, these camps cease to exist. BSA has already LOST prefered status with many state and federal park facilities over its membership policies. This varries from not being able to get discounted group rates, to in some cases outright land use bans by the governing agencies.

 

I happen to reside in a council that is in the process of loosing its council camp site in Balboa Park because of BSA's membership issues. The council leadership (in its wisdom) has a capital improvement plan to buy / build an OFFICE BUILDING !!! to replace the council office and land use area it is loosing !!! They didn't go seek out a undeveloped land area (not that there is much left in San Diego county) to buy and replace the Camp Balboa site... they went 21st century Wood Badge and are going to get an office building.

 

So, the funding and the business and the policy of BSA national does DIRECTLY EFFECT the scouting program at the local level. That is why its not a dead horse, and WHY the local vols should be concerned and engaged in how BSA manages its corporate brand to the public.

 

I wonder if "John Smith family" conference room in the new council offices has the same ring to it as "John Smith family" dining hall does?

 

Dean