New pattern of responsibility

[WasE61]

It seems with the indictment of Graham Spanier, the former PSU president, a new trail of culpability is being blazed.

 

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/11/graham_spanier_says_gov_tom_co.html

 

It remains to be seen how wide this will spread.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

So, as attorney General, Tom Corbett, now Gov of Pennsylvania, knew of the Jerry Sandusky invertigation and because he didnt do anything "as soon as" he realized crimes were committed the Governor is responsible for anything bad that happened.

 

 

So, where does this place "Deep Cover"operations. Can law enforcement agencies infiltrate criminal organizations and how much evidence do they need before arresting anybody? Was Serpico negligent? Should he have stopped bad things from happening? What about any undercover sting operation. What about buying drugs undercover and then not arresting the dealer in hopes of getting the supplier. What if the next drug buy results in the death of the user, is the undercover agent culpable?

 

it would take a University Professor to come up with this one

[fred8033]

I'm not a lawyer, but a key difference here is that teachers and school administrators have been subject to mandatory reporting laws for a long time. I don't think scout leaders were subject to mandatory reporting laws until the 1990s, 2000s or even 2010s.

 

I'm assuming teacher reporting laws extended to universities in addition to elementary, middle and high schools. I'm sure it varied state by state.

[AZMike]

In Germany, that's the law - if an undercover detective witnesses a crime, he has to declare his identity and make an arrest. Not much UC work going on in Germany.

 

What is the level of culpability? At the CEO level?

 

Planned Parenthood is probably the worst offending agency in America for covering up the sexual abuse of minors, far worse than Penn State, the BSA, the schools, or any church you can name - they routinely deal with minors who tell them they had sex with an adult and need an abortion, and they almost never report the criminal sex act, despite being mandated reporters as medical professionals. Pimps bring in underage prostitutes for abortion, and it's never reported. Medical confidentiality can't be invoked in these cases, as medical confidentiality does not apply in the case of reported criminal sexual abuse by a minor or a perpetrator.

 

Should the head of Planned Parenthood be arrested?

[eisely]

Yes

[CalicoPenn]

AZMike,

 

Can you prove anything you just stated about Planned Parenthood, or are you repeating what you've heard and read from evangelical and anti-PP blogs and pundits? Have you ever asked those folks what kind of proof they have? Have you ever wondered why they told you these things or do you just accept it on blind faith?

 

 

[WasE61]

I agree with Calico ... if you have knowledge (or even a strong suspicion of) of a criminal act against a child, then you have the moral obligation to report it...anonymously if need be. Mandatory reporting requirements be damned.

 

My wife just took YPT again ...ironically, she missed the question on who to notify for an abuse claim...she answered local BSA and Police. The "correct" answer was just the local BSA.

 

Her response to that was "like heck...I'll call the cops first."

 

 

[Twocubdad]

I believe the technical term for this Corbett/Spanier thing is "p---ing contest."

[AnniePoo]

I also agree with Calico.

 

And I also would notify the police first, then BSA.

[Peregrinator]

Can you prove anything you just stated about Planned Parenthood

 

PP employees have been caught on video during "sting" operations.

 

I hasten to add that I don't approve of the "stings" since they involve lying. Nevertheless, the evidence is there.

[DeanRx]

So, along those same lines of thought...

 

I sell a PlanB tablet to an underage female in my practice (in CA, the age for reproductive medical consent is 13 - I don't agree, but I must follow the law).I am a healthcare provider, and thus, a mandatory abuse reporter.

 

Do you think I ASK about why this girl needs the PlanB? Hell No. If she volunteers the info, then I will make a report if it is warranted. However, there is NO legal requirement for me to INQUIRE if the need is due to forced sexual activity. I'm a healthcare provider, not a cop / DA - and I do NOT need extra nooses to stick my head through to increase my malpractice premiums, thank you very much.

 

A girl asks for the Rx, she's over age 13 (in CA - your state varries, but most are 15 or 16 y/o age requirements now... not adult age), I advise on sexual activity risks, options for birth control, refer to OB/Gyn if need-be, and give them literature about STD's and sexual abuse. Then I give them the Rx for what they need.

 

I wish I didn't have to, but that is the society we live in. 13 y/o DO need plan B from time to time, the reasons vary. If they want to TELL me about abuse, I will act - but I certainly do NOT go looking for it, unless there are other outward signs of trouble at the exam (i.e. girl comes in with black eye and bruised arm, not concerned about her injuries, but wants a planB Rx or a referal to OB for possible abortion).

 

I got enough on my plate to abide by the laws that govern my practice. I don't go looking for additional messes to poke my nose into. Call that passing the buck if you want, but its BS that I'm expected to be healer and police and social worker all in one! Unless someone tells me otherwise, THEIR reproductive health is THEIR business, not mine. I educate and give options / resources, then treat based on what the patient wants / needs. I do not judge and I certainly try not to impart my personal morals / values on their situation / decision. I sure as hell do not go on any abuse witch hunts that are not either readily apparant or reported to me. I think most healthcare providers do the same.

 

Dean

[Eamonn]

I'm not a fan of Tom Corbett.

I'm not sure if the way the Sandusky case was dealt with was exactly the way it should have been?

Even Corbett now says that the grand jury hearings were risky.

However from my point of view. It seems that a lot of groups / people seem to want to score political points more than get to the real truth.

Corbett does seem to be playing a lot of fancy footwork with the constitution of the Commonwealth.

His vow not to raise taxes has and is doing a lot of harm to the poor and weak residents of PA.

I'll bet my bottom dollar that when it come time to elect a new Governor all of this will be brought up again and rehashed again.

I for one hope that he is sent packing.

However because I don't know enough about what he did or didn't do as AG? I want him gone, not for what he did as AG,but for the harm he has done as Governor.

[AZMike]

CalicoPenn: "Can you prove anything you just stated about Planned Parenthood, or are you repeating what you've heard and read from evangelical and anti-PP blogs and pundits? Have you ever asked those folks what kind of proof they have? Have you ever wondered why they told you these things or do you just accept it on blind faith?"

 

No, I pretty much just accept it on blind faith, like all the people who disagree with you. None of us ever do any research or have any relevant personal experience.

 

Actually, yes. I have personal experience with this issue.

 

But Calico, are you serious? You haven't heard ANYTHING about this issue, and think it is all drummed-up by "evangelical and anti-PP blogs and pundits"? Seriously? Do you not read any "blogs and pundits" who don't agree with your own preconceptions?

 

http://www.gazette.com/opinion/state-143700-penn-didn.html

 

http://www.liveaction.org/monalisa/tucson-az/

 

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/09/21/planned-parenthood-forced-to-settle-suit-failed-to-report-child-rape/

 

http://archive.lifenews.com/state4167.html

 

 

 

 

[BSA24]

I think the reality is that most people are not going to try to report someone for something like this because the law is out of step with human instinct. The truth is that 99% of people who see a parent smack their kid across the face are not going to call the police. They are going to shrug it off, smirk because a kid with a smart mouth got slapped, or think "They want me to report that, but I'm not going to end up on TV over a kid getting slapped and lose my job and end up the village tattle-tale."

 

The reality is that almost no one is will to report anything to police unless their own property is stolen or they think someone is in serious life-threatening danger at the time.

 

While YPT may insist that we take the phone from someone who possibly took inappropriate photos of youth, the truth is that if someone falsely accused me, and reached for my phone, I'd deck them. You're not a cop. You are not taking my phone without a warrant from a judge saying you can search it. So, I'm not going to seize anyone's phone from them. Not under any circumstances.

 

We can mandate people report rapes, but 13 year olds are pretty sophisticated, and if the choice is that they try to do back-yard abortion or fall down the stairs or someone not report the rape, then I'm pretty comfortable with it not being reported.

 

The bottom line and end result is what is important. A dead kid is a worse outcome than a secretly raped kid.

 

So, while what they are doing is technically wrong, it is not exactly morally reprehensible to me.

 

Since I will be lit aflame for this comment, I will also go ahead and confess I never obey the speed limit, I roll through stop signs at 1 mph especially in the middle of the night, and I also jay walk a lot. Oh, and once a vending machine dropped an extra milky way bar, and I giggled and ate it.

 

I know. I am evil.

(This message has been edited by bsa24)

[Horizon]

BSA24 - I filed a report on a parent in my unit when he chased his son through the camp with his belt, trying to pull his pants down and beat him. I also told him that his son was welcome to stay, but he was not. So I guess that makes me the 1% in your hypothetical. His sons are still involved in the units I work with, he only drops them off now.

 

Now the phone with questionable content concerns me - because I don't want to be in possession of child porn myself. If it was at a Troop campout, I would have the boy call his parents and I would ask them what they would like to do - come pick up the kid, or allow me to lock the phone in a separate container (I would do this with a witness, and do something else with key). I don't really know - I am thinking of the example from the current YPT online session where you see the kid go into the latrine / shower with his cell phone.