Article on BSA/AHG Partnership in Nov/Dec Issue of Scouting Magazine

[Nike]

Once again, WHO at the national level is pushing AHG onto BSA?

 

And, why is AHG so desperate to attach themselves to BSA if they have a sustainable program model? Do they want to be their own organization for girls or is absorption their long term strategy?

 

AHG is a first and foremost a ministry, not a Scouting program that is used as part of a ministry outreach. It's right there on the front page of the website.

[Basementdweller]

I wonder if someone should start a petition on that petition site and ask national to end the mutual support agreement????

 

 

AHGMOM.....I don't like the faith statement, I don't like that it is being forced down our throats by AHG Volunteers. Remember those camps you and your folks enjoy are maintained and paid for by US lowly long term BSA members.....If your going to use our camps I would like to see special AHG pricing to pay for your share of the camp.

 

So have you scheduled a FOS presentation for your AHG group??????? You need to if you expect to use the BSA owned facilities.

 

If the BSA wants to partner then the AHG program should end at 14 and the faith statement needs to be none Christian based.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[BadenP]

 

Nike hit the nail on the head about AHG, "It is first and foremost a (so called Christian?) ministry outreach program." They are struggling to get themselves well connected with larger youth organizations to prevent them from disappearing all together. In my area they have gone from five troops down to one, which is really struggling to stay alive. The reason some former youth members directly told me what that all their group was doing was constantly praying and being lectured to about how non Christians were "All going to hell." These girls parents expressed to me their grave concerns about this "brainwashing" of their kids under the guise of a "scoutlike program". IMO the BSA has no business or reason to form any kind of alliance with this group. It makes me wonder if Wayne Brock's wife is somehow affiliated with the AHG.

[SeattlePioneer]

Nothing prevents Scout units from conducting frequent prayers and that non Christians are all going to Hell. I don't doubt there are those doing so.

 

If you have a poor program and parents are choosing to take children out of it, what's the issue?

 

 

[BadenP]

SP

 

The BSA is a nonsectarian organization open to all faiths, as well as promoting the understanding and tolerance of other faiths. Your scenario is just openly false and prejudicial, and goes against the DRP of the BSA. This is why the BSA association with the AHG is just a bad idea and will come back to haunt them.

[Peregrinator]

Your scenario is just openly false and prejudicial, and goes against the DRP of the BSA.

 

It might be unusual now but it certainly wasn't unusual even a couple of generations ago. For example, Catholic troops with all-Catholic membership were common.

[Peregrinator]

Also, strictly speaking, AHG is not sectarian since it is pan-Christian. That is, it doesn't adhere to any one sect.

[SR540Beaver]

Baden P, I would assume that someone who was at one time a scouting professional would know that a charter can indeed dicate the religious activities of their unit. You are correct that many don't, but they certainly can. They can limit the troop membership to only the members of their church and use it as a ministry within the church just as they would the choir. They can even open it up to non-church members and still require that an evangelical message be delivered at each campout complete with an alter call if they wish. Now, they probably won't end up with a very large troop with members outside of their particular brand of beliefs, but it could legitimately happen. The "BSA" is nonsectarian in their approach. The organizations they grant charters to are not limited to being nonsectarian.

[BadenP]

Pere

 

Your comparison to all Catholic troops of long ago is no longer valid and no longer relevant to this discussion, and the AHG in practice does hold to a very regimented ultra conservative type of Christianity, since they discuss why all Christian sects do not go to heaven, and do not consider LDS to be Christians. So you are wrong on that point as well.

 

SR540

That is where the BSA is totally hypocritical since the granting of those charters to groups that restrict membership to only those members of their own church violates the principles of the DRP, and why in my opinion why the DRP should be eliminated since National doesn't even seem to know what it really means.

 

I love it when some of the Catholics here jump to defense of the AHG, especially considering before their affiliation with the RC Church the AHG founders did not consider Catholicism to be true Christianity either.

 

 

[Peregrinator]

Your comparison to all Catholic troops of long ago is no longer valid

 

There aren't many of them around any more, that is true; but there are some. And there are certainly troops that are all-Muslim or all-LDS.

 

the AHG in practice does hold to a very regimented ultra conservative type of Christianity

 

They seem rather liberal and ecumenical to me! :-)

[Basementdweller]

Baden.....could you cite your source for the catholic comment?????

 

 

I would like to see it and be able to torpedo the move for a AHG group at our Catholic church.

[SeattlePioneer]

I see that BadenP has failed to acknowledge that BSA units can be just as restrictive as the AHG unit he describes.

 

 

The initial miss statement could have been a simple error. But failing to correct such an error suggests that it was a deliberate misstatement meant to smear AHG units with an excessively broad brush.

 

I hope Baden P will correct that misstatement.

[AZMike]

Bade:

 

"..before their affiliation with the RC Church the AHG founders did not consider Catholicism to be true Christianity either. "

 

Yeah, I'd like to see a source for that claim, too. Can you provide a link or a document or something?

[MomWhoCamps]

Geez...and some people even believe this stuff. *sigh*

 

I obviously can't speak for the behavior of every AHG troop across the country, just like BadenP can't speak for the behavior of every BSA troop or Cub Scout Pack. Just because there have been some child molestation issues associated with BSA does not mean that BSA is a national organization that promotes this abhorrent behavior. Similarly, just because some AHG troops might be extremely conservative or using their troop as a bully pulpit or whatever does not mean that the national organization promotes this. In fact, the Statement of Faith is quite ecumenical in its approach.

 

The funny thing is that no one is saying that BSA can't sign a similar mutual agreement with a Muslim girls' organization, or an organization for girls who have blue eyes, or bat left handed. Why not enter into a mutual support agreement with GSUSA? The limiting factor is that either no one has established such groups or the groups that are established have not expressed interest in partnering with BSA. So why is BSA partnered with AHG? The article says, "...to cooperate in establishing AHG units and BSA units as a result of the shared values and goals of both organizations."

[Basementdweller]

I am sure we would react in the same way if it were forced down our throats.