11 year old not allowed to join Scouts as atheist

[AZMike]

And, surprisingly, in the U.K. for once, not the U.S. of A.:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2219513/Atheist-schoolboy-11-banned-joining-Scouts-refuses-swear-duty-God.html

[qwazse]

Glad George found out his faith means something.

 

Kinda wish the SM feels comfortable with giving it a few more months. Maybe he did, but the boy finally came to terms on his own.

 

It's odd how believing the world was created in a week is synonymous with theism. If this is a young earth, the human mind could certainly find a plausible naturalistic explanation for it.

[Nike]

You can't logicaly believe in the science of geology and a young Earth at the same time. They are completely antithetical.

[Peregrinator]

... and attacking religion in general on the basis that one doesn't believe that the Earth was created in six days is attacking a straw man.

[Pint]

From a UK Scouters point of view... ( ie my p.o.v)

 

I think there is more to this than meets the eye, what in the USA with the BSA you call the Scout Oath, we have a Scout Promise, which is

 

"On My honour,

I promise that I will do my best,

To do my duty to God and to the Queen,

to help other people,

and to keep the Scout law"

 

This is where things start to get a little contradictory, all members have to take the Scout promise when joining, the rules state that for adult members that an avowed absence of religious belief is a bar to appointment to a ( Adult )Leadership position.

 

for those under 18 - ie youth members the UK Cheif comisioner for Scouting says this:

 

Scouting is of course open to followers of all faiths (and appropriate variations of the Scout Promise are available),furthermore we recognise that many young people have not yet fully formed their beliefs or faith, indeed one of the elements of Scouting is to actively encourage and allow young people to explore their faiths, beliefs and attitudes.Indeed, we accept that young people who question Gods existence(and say they are atheists or agnostics), their own spirituality or thestructures and forms of belief espoused by the various religions may simply besearching for spiritual understanding.

 

 

So if a youth member says that they are atheist/agnostic then they are simply searching for spiritual uderstanding ( or have not yet found it)and there is nothing wrong with them being in scouts, or joining Scouts.

which brings us back round to the Scout promise which they must say Do my "Duty to God" in order to join - has anyone spotted a flaw/contradiction in this anywhere?

 

If we look at whats happened it could possibly appear that:

The Scout leader should have told the youth member about the Scout promise and law, and if the youth member has/had any issues and questions then these should have been raised, and dealt with apropiatley, with regards to the God question if asked, i would have mentioned that its up to the young person to define God, weather they see, or understand God to be as God is in the traditional sense of things, or to re-define God as maybe something else - such as the force of nature, or even the force behind nature.

If you look at Evolution how did that all start, what was the zero point in the evolution of life? who, or what lit the fuse that started the big bang? was/is it nature? is nature just another word/term for God?

 

 

 

Another oddity is that the youth member had been attending Scouts for some time, almost a year, why the wait?

(This message has been edited by pint)

[BSA24]

Young earthers make me laugh. Fickle fans, they are. They deny all science and scientists, then use a PC, an amazing scientific creation, to surf the Internet (more science) with an amazing flat panel monitor and a smart phone more powerful than a 1990's super computer... but scientists don't know anything.

 

Please someone show me what I do all day that is provided by young earth belief. Oh yes, that's right. That would be NOTHING.

 

But science lets you drive to the store. Science made the products in the store possible, and the transport and storage of them. Even the cash register is a scientific marvel. The lights, the power grid, the air conditioning... every capability humanity has is based on science.

 

There is no capability we have based on our superstitious beliefs. Well, except to defund scientific research, refuse to educate children in science, fall behind other nations in education in math and science, and lose our ability to remain the world's leader in technology. Oh, and not vaccinate and therefore die and suffer under horrible diseases.

 

So, yes, superstition is bad for us. It has terrible side effects and no demonstrated benefits other than making us feel better about ourselves and rationalizing away fear and doubt. Science, on the other hand, made you able to read this. Without an education, you could not respond or understand it.

 

Imagine what you could read, understand, and respond to if you were as educated as the typical astrophysicist or geologist?

 

[Peregrinator]

Another oddity is that the youth member had been attending Scouts for some time, almost a year, why the wait?

 

Perhaps the simplest explanation is that the powers that be were giving him time (a lot of it) to decide whether he wanted to make the Scout Promise.

[Brewmeister]

Denying that their is a God is as foolish as saying that all those great inventions BSA24 mentioned simply arose from the ground over time.

 

You cannot honestly look at the complexity of creation and deny that it was created.

[qwazse]

Never underestimate the power of the human mind to make the leap of faith that a scientifically improbable configuration of matter precipitated from forces no more profound those that shape tea leaves.

[AZMike]

It would require a real leap of faith to believe that the universe was created from nothing, by nothing, for nothing.

[Sentinel947]

BSA24, you painting religion and broad strokes, and then insulting those of us who are religious is incredibly insulting and shortsighted. Funny how you can point out the speck of ignorance in a young Earthers eye, but miss the branch in your own. Oh wait, that's "superstiution isn't it? Furthermore, your zeal for science and technology seems to have a reverance all it's own. That's all fine and well, but those of us who respect Scientists and their discoveries and respect our beliefs do not need your condescending attitude towards us. May not in your world, but in mine, Science and Religion peacefully coexist.

 

Good day,

Sentinel

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Right, "magic man done it" is a great explanation. For anything. It explains everything and nothing.

 

Not surprising to see the british scouting association is as hypocritical as its american counterpart; they pay lip service to allowing atheist youth -- you just have to pretend you're religious so as to not scare off the simpletons.

[packsaddle]

Perhaps you guys would enjoy these blasts from the past:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=105837#id_105837

and

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=51342#id_51342

 

and there are even more back there in the archives. Enjoy...

[Brewmeister]

Ah, Merlin, go suck an egg. You can pretend you evolved into the most complex being on the planet out of some primordial ooze and random proteins that happened to be lying around if it makes you feel better about your meaningless existence.

[SeattlePioneer]

In the beginning (well, 1910) God created Scouting.