Perversion files released

[scoutingagain]

This was the lead story on the late local news here as well. Also heard the NPR piece and it's been in the local papers. Lots of mis-information on what's in the files and the BSA has not done a good job of explaining what they are. Must be trained by Obama's media team.

 

Not matter what, this is not the kind of publicity we need.

 

SA

 

 

[Twocubdad]

BSA deserves every bit of bad publicty and ill will it gets over this. Why? Because the folks running the show at National are MORONS! You reading this Wayne Brock? I'm talking to you. This from a guy who has helped pay your salary YOUR ENTIRE CAREER!

 

We've known this was coming for, what, at least six months, and should have had a good clue about it for two years. What has BSA done to get out ahead of this? Why didn't they release the files on their own terms. Where is the analysis of the files pointing out the incidence of abuse reports compared to other institutions? Or pointing out that in the vast majority of cases BSA handled the situation well and prevented further abuse? Or the number of cases which were outside of Scouting over which BSA had no control?

 

I don't know what these stats are. But why not? Why haven't we -- the people STILL paying Wayne Brock's salary -- been given some ammunition to have these discussions?

 

Instead, we're letting NPR and the LA Times drive this story. How do you think their spin is going to be? How's it working so far?

 

Yes, this is just the PR/media game. But you can play the game or bury your head in the sand. We can pretend to be above it all and that the publicity doesn't help us protect or serve Scouts. BUT IT DOES. How many units will we loose? Sounds like every Methodist CO in Florida is refusing to recharter already. How many families will drop? How many will never join.

 

I hope Brock has 14 TV crews camped out on his front lawn this weekend. He and every member of his staff deserves every bit of grief they've earned.

[Tampa Turtle]

I heard it on both NPR and Foxnews. It is depressing. Fair or not it is what we have to deal with and BSA should have "turned in those names" --that it says it will do now-- a long time ago.

[Mr. Boyce]

Perverts who like boys will hang around boy organizations. I don't think the BSA is unique in having this problem.

 

My sense is that in 2012, we have higher standards in this area for two reasons: first, because we CAN have them (computers, better records, better ability to monitor) and second, because we're more alert to the detrimental effects of molestation.

 

It used to be virtually laughed off, or treated as a small matter.

 

I have a tough time, though, using 2012 standards/science in order to condemn those using lousy science and technology and wrong psychology. You may be forgetting this, but at one time, experts thought this kind of perversion was treatable.

[rdclements]

I took the time to review a few of the files that are related to back home when I was a scout. Even though a couple of them were from my neighborhood, they didn't cover my time. As far as I can tell, I don't know the men involved.

 

In reading through some of the materials - letters, notes from meetings, etc. - there were many references to people who had noticed behaviors but did not feel confident or empowered enough to act. Someone chose to not call the police because they didn't want to cause trouble, or the social worker at the school decided not to escalate the issue, and so on.

 

This strongly reinforces our continuing role as volunteers. If something doesn't seem right, check it out and act. In every one of the case files that I have read (so far) there were opportunities to stop something before it got worse but people failed to take action.

[SeattlePioneer]

http://seattletimes.com/html/northwestvoices/2019467803_boyscout19lets.html

 

 

Boy Scouts of America did the right thing

 

I think the Boy Scouts of America did the right thing in dealing with child molesters during the time these files were compiled. Speaking as a person who went to the police in 1985 and reported an adult who molesteda 9-year-old girl, I am aware of how little the police would do about these acts back then. [Files on alleged Boy Scout sex abusers go public today, page one, Oct. 18].

 

Unless a child was actually raped, a molestation investigation amounted to little more than a he said, she said thing and got nowhere. The molester was free to shop around for another child to harm. At least the Boy Scouts of America did something back then to keep child molesters from any further involvement in scouting once they found out about it, or I might add, even suspected it.

 

Bob McQuade, Kent

[Nike]

With no statistical abstract, these files are useless and harmful.

 

I randomly chose one from overseas which was from 1970. The male subject was discharged from the military for homosexual conduct. There was no indication that he was involved in child molestation or any kind of detail on what he did to be discharged by a court martial.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Nike)

[Brewmeister]

It's tough when something you believe in and have devoted a lot of time to comes under attack and you can't do anything about it.

 

The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) has its faults, but its current youth protection practices are not among them. Precisely because of mistakes that were made in the past, the organization has put safeguards in place to protect youth (and adults) that are recognized as a model for youth groups. The fact that these safeguards are needed is tragic, but guarding against the evils of humanity is a sad fact of life.

 

Unfortunately all the recent news about the court-mandated release of BSA's Ineligible Volunteer (IV) files from 1965-1985 overshadows this. The media has no interest in presenting any context: salacious details sell papers, and using the term "perversion files" makes for an eye-catching headline (never mind that volunteers were also considered ineligible for other reasons such as theft, etc.).

 

Unfortunately, when a group holds itself up to a moral standard, then fails to meet that standard (as it must fail, because it involves people with human failings), its easy for those that dont have any standards to point to failings as a condemnation of the entire effort. Also wrapped up in this is a desire by some to see the BSA knocked down because of its stance on not allowing membership or leadership to gays or atheists. There are many who would like to kill the BSA and dance on its grave.

 

All this doesnt make it any easier on those of us who believe in the program and have seen its positive impact on youth. It also doesn't help us rank-and-file local leaders, who need to keep our units healthy and grow our membership.

 

Its easy to get discouraged but I still have faith that scouting will continue and not become an anachronism in an increasingly immoral and secular society.

[CricketEagle]

I have not read them all, but I did open 4 or 5 from our local area. Generally I saw that people did care, some went so far to say that parents did no want to go to the police. None of this is good in the light of 2012 standards, but compared to 1980's and back, there was some effort. Back then we would not even see an underwear commercial on TV, now we have Cialis and Viagra over and over on TV.

 

There appears to have been more of an effort than my local diocese put forth with a few of our terible parish priests. Thank God I was never alone with them.

 

Having been involved in the last few years to deny adult memberships twice I now how hard this can be. Both of my problem cases were mental health issues. Darn tricky to document, legally it leaves you scared to death. Both cases had to accept an application just to have grounds to research what several of us knew anyway.

 

BSA really has limited power over these things, the charted organizing has much more.

 

We are not perfect. It is all about the scouts, but the vast majority of us always have tried our best and always will.

 

I am not dismissing this, but there is no perspective.

 

I am sure the lawyers are already trying to contact scouts in all the former units cited in these files. Blood in the water.

 

 

[fred8033]

I've been reading the files from my state. I'm fine with how BSA handled that set of cases (10 so far) ... that I've read so far. I haven't seen any burying their head or hiding cases or protecting the bad guy. If anything, I've seen an effort to get complete information, record what happened and a strong effort to keep the person out of scouting.

 

...

 

By today's standards, everycase would have been handled very different. But by the standards of 1960 to 1985, I'm fine with how BSA handled the cases. If anything, I'd say they showed professionalism.

Several of the documents included statements that the parents did not want to get their sons involved to shield their sons from possible police cases. I must admit that if I was an SE back then and the parents said they didn't want to take it to the police, I'd be hard pressed to decide differently.

 

The one thing I wish I could find is a dependable source of the laws back then. Could the person(s) have been prosecuted? Would the victims have been protected?

[Lisabob]

I looked at a couple that got a lot of discussion in local media so far. In one, a leader admitted to police to raping a boy and molesting his brothers. In another, a leader admitted to police to molesting 10 boys at a camp. In both cases, strong pressure was brought to bear not to press charges in order to "save the good name" of scouting. In one, a former scouter who was convicted of molesting children says the local BSA kept calling him with volunteer requests for years after he was done serving his prison sentence, and he had to tell the BSA to stop contacting him.

 

There are likely all kinds of less awful examples in the files, and examples where folks did the right thing. But there are evidently real cases of serious abuse and systematic cover ups in there, too. This is wrong now, was wrong then, and - like cover ups nearly always do - has the exact opposite impact of what the BSA desired.

 

So I can't help but say, the BSA is now getting what's been coming to them for quite some time. And I agree with TwoCub, that they aren't handling this very well in terms of responding to the release of this damning information.

[SeattlePioneer]

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I'm sure that having people and institutions that want to avoid bad publicity is an everyday occurrence for police and prosecutors.

 

As I understand it, it's VERY common for parents not to want to have someone prosecuted who has molested their child. They want to avoid the bad publicity and fall out of trials, too.

 

If prosecutors had a good case and elected not to pursue it, I'd say that's the responsibility of prosecutors, not Scouting.

 

 

 

 

[BSA24]

BSA did everything wrong here. All of it. It is a PR catastrophe of galactic proportions.

 

* You mean BSA has had these files since 1965, and has not thought to call them Youth Protection Files instead of ineligible volunteer files?

 

* BSA never had a game plan for how to release these one day in the future? No contingency for some being stolen and published, or a tell all from an angry former employee?

 

* BSA has not previously crafted a message on the files?

 

* BSA chose to withhold the files until forced to release them, making it look like there was something to hide?

 

What do you think is going to happen next now that the brand has been burned some more? The good news is, no gays or atheists will be beating down the door to join any time soon. The bad news is, nor will anyone else. Do you think this will get the kids wearing their uniforms publicly with pride?

 

There is no way to respond to any of this and spin it for the better. It's too late to get in front of it.

 

BSA is on the mat and the ref is counting. I doubt there is anyone down in Irving, TX who is qualified to get back up and into the fight again.

 

[WasE61]

I agree with BSA24 ... BSA knew and did nothing to protect anyone but themselves.

 

Oooo....we put John Perves name down on our list. So he can't diddle *our* boys anymore. Let him go be a leader in some other organization and diddle boys *there*.

 

It's funny how it took the media, lawyers and the Courts to take this from a hidden, "oh never mind" issue and make it a real problem. I applaud them all for changing this world...I cannot imagine why anyone would be against it.

 

To bad those organization purported to be the molder of leaders and morals couldn't take the helm....maybe this problem would have a 20 year head start.

[SeattlePioneer]

It's not at all clear to me that BSA has any LEGAL obligation to report SUSPECTED cases of child abuse.

 

Perhaps someone can explain.

 

As I understand it, in RECENT years a FEW authorities, such as physicians, have had an obligation to make such reports to the police --- but they have expert knowledge to use in making such evaluations.

 

I fail to see why BSA employees have such an obligation, especially when they probably have little or no direct knowledge or evidence in their possession.

 

Instead, it seems to me that it is the RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARENTS to make complaints to the police if they wish to do so.

 

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