scout denied eagle

[sailingpj]

Here is another article about this scout.

 

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_21725617/barnidge-one-giant-negative-among-all-boy-scouts

 

I found the current top comment rather interesting.

 

"The major problem with the BSA position on homosexual members is that a boy doesn't realize that he is homosexual until he has many years into scouting, and likely until he reaches the point where he is considering becoming an Eagle Scout. For the Boy Scouts to punish a young man for something over which he has no control is, in my mind, barbarian. Medical science is now very clear that homosexuality is a normal part of human sexuality and is not a "choice" as some would claim. It was not a problem with scouting in the past, not because there were no homosexuals (the statistics haven't changed), but because they suffered in silence.

 

I do not have a problem with the BSA refusing to allow homosexuals to be troop leaders, it is their legal right. But to punish a child over something the child cannot control is unacceptable. They do not discriminate because of race, size, eye or hair color or any of the other things you are born with so why, other than a persistent primitive belief that sexuality is a choice, a persons sexuality. As Mr. Barnidge points out, their lack of basic tolerance is a serious flaw in an otherwise outstanding organization. I'm sure their prejudice resonates in the Southern and Central parts of the United States, but in a modern society it stinks."

[AZMike]

"I'm sure their prejudice resonates in the Southern and Central parts of the United States, but in a modern society it stinks."

 

And I can assure you that the citizens of the southern and central parts of the United States appreciate your prejudices and bigotry.

[Basementdweller]

I gotta add that the link to his social Page made me want to vomiting. His posts and ramblings were that of a 14 year old girl.

 

I was sick to the very core of my soul.

 

[packsaddle]

AZMike, I think that was part of the quoted comment.

[BDPT00]

There are numerous subjects being bounced about. I'm interested in this one: "Medical science is now very clear that homosexuality is a normal part of human sexuality and is not a "choice" as some would claim."

I would love to be directed to this very clear medical science (which sounds to me to mean proof), because I happen to be one who claims that this is a social, rather than medical, condition (and I'm quite sure that's a politically incorrect term). Does this make me pro choice?

BDPT00

[sailingpj]

BDPT00, Feel free to ask the guy on that commented on the article to cite his sources. I would rather not link my facebook profile to that article right now.

 

The wikipedia entry has some good sources cited that you may want to check out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Cause

 

The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers stated in 2006:

Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexualincluding possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents' sexual orientation. However, the available evidence indicates that the vast majority of lesbian and gay adults were raised by heterosexual parents and the vast majority of children raised by lesbian and gay parents eventually grow up to be heterosexual.[2]

 

The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.[4]

 

The American Academy of Pediatrics stated in Pediatrics in 2004:

Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences. In recent decades, biologically based theories have been favored by experts. Although there continues to be controversy and uncertainty as to the genesis of the variety of human sexual orientations, there is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation. Current knowledge suggests that sexual orientation is usually established during early childhood.[4][134][135]

[Oak Tree]

There are all kinds of gray areas on things.

 

If the Scout directly stated that he disagreed with the Duty to God, then he is pretty much stating that he is not eligible for membership. You can disagree with the BSA on many topics without violating anything that is explicitly listed as a membership criteria, but every application says that you need to recognize an obligation to God in order to be a member.The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership.

[BDPT00]

-there is no scientific consensus

-It would appear

-probably is not determined by any one factor

-Current knowledge suggests that sexual orientation is usually established during early childhood

 

*** Is this some sort of scientific or medical proof of something?

I'll check out wikipedia later this evening, but so far I see nothing that resembles anything in the "very clear" category.

BDPT00

[packsaddle]

Oak Tree, how does BSA accept Buddhists and members of other religions who do not believe in a 'deity'?

[CalicoPenn]

The assumptions being made about this lad and his family is amazing.

 

Nothing in the articles suggests, as OGE does, that the lad is sexually active.

 

Based on a statement from the BSA that appears not to be very accurate, we have folks like Basement accusing him of not being honest when saying the oath starting from age 12.

 

We have folks claiming this is all a media stunt.

 

Someone has made tha assumption that the family is "wealthy".

 

And now we have people assuming folks in Central and Southern US are somehow more prejudiced than people from elsewhere in the US.

 

Has anyone read the ABC article? If true, it makes the BSA look even worse - that lad had left Scouts for a time due to bullying and was convinced by his Scoutmaster, after informing his Scoutmaster he was gay, to come back and go for the Eagle Scout rank and not let the bullies win.

 

This weekend, I purchased popcorn from Cub Scouts from three different packs (in three different councils no less) because I believe in the program. One of the adults took me aside and thanked me for brightening up his lads day because they were getting very discouraged because they were outside a very busy store for over an hour and no one would buy the popcorn and that a lot of folks said they would have except that the Boy Scouts won't award a gay kid his Eagle Scout. He said he tried to explain that they didn't support that policy and that it was in a council across the country but people just didn't care. What made it worse for him is that some of these folks are his neighbors - people he sees all the time, and a couple of them asked him if he was a homophobe. Yeah, for all those stories of people saying "keep up the good work", are stories of people saying just the opposite.

 

How many of these black eyes must the BSA endure before it finally drags its head out of the sand and realizes they're rapidly becoming a dinosaur.

 

I said this was another black eye for the Boy Scouts. Go ahead and defend the policy all you want - most people don't look at a 17 year old boy and think hes some awful monster because he's gay. People are interacting with more and more families with same-sex parents and aren't seeing those parents as boogeymen anymore.

[Eagle732]

"If the Scout directly stated that he disagreed with the Duty to God, then he is pretty much stating that he is not eligible for membership. You can disagree with the BSA on many topics without violating anything that is explicitly listed as a membership criteria, but every application says that you need to recognize an obligation to God in order to be a member."

 

The kid says he is an "Agnostic"

Look it up and read it yourself.

Maybe that's what his SM saw before he decided not to sign off.

[OldGreyEagle]

If you took I was alleging that the youth was sexually active, that was not my intent

 

Scouts are to be asexual, that has been what I have been saying for awhile

[skeptic]

Read this to get another perspective on these issues.

 

 

http://3dblogger.typepad.com/wired_state/2012/10/why-i-dont-support-gay-eagle-scout-ryan-andresens-tactics.html

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

That's a pretty ridiculous perspective skeptic; that guy says:

There is already a Supreme Court ruling that the Boy Scouts (and by extension any organization) get to decide who their members are, and yet these activists want to keep trying to break that law and overturn it. Why?

 

First, if a supreme court decision is actually overturned, no law has been broken; the supreme court has overturned its own earlier decisions many times, sometimes as soon as three years later.

 

Second, what the activists are trying to do is get the BSA to change its policies, which is perfectly legal also.

[AlFansome]

 

Looks like 40+ Eagles from his troop and 180+ total are returning their Eagle medals in support:

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/09/14293913-gay-scouts-come-out-rally-around-teens-eagle-scout-bid

 

 

I'm about 10 minutes from the Troop's town, so this has been getting quite a bit of play here locally and of course inside our Council as well. It will be interesting to see if there's a push in the council to take a position like the Northern Star council did.

 

FWIW, the troop website has been taken down at this point, but it's an "interesting" troop on a couple of levels not related to it's current notariety.