Taxing to re-educate how to behave

[Eagledad]

I'm always intrigued with government attempts to control behavior. It kind of goes under the the heading of The guy with the biggest stick annology I use now and then. But I never expected a Tax to teach us manners?

 

I don't expect a debate NJ, just some interesting reading.

 

It is forbidden to encamp or erect makeshift shelters and stop to eat or drink in zones which have a particular historic or architectural value, reads the ordinance adopted by Rome city council.

 

"This is a way to re-educate people about how to behave in this city. We've let standards fall," Viviana Di Capua, member of an association of historic district residents, told the paper.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2012/10/02/tourists-snacking-in-rome-could-be-fined-hundreds-dollars/?intcmp=features

 

Barry

[Trevorum]

Along identical lines, the NY Post recently reported about how visitors to the 9/11 memorial are behaving inappropriately.

 

"... visitors to the National September 11th Memorial in New York City show no such restraint, with some treating that hallowed ground more like a Disney attraction. They sit (or worse, lie down) on the bronze-plaque names of the dead, and lay (and spill!) their drink cups on them, creating an almost cheerful atmosphere, the Post said."

 

 

[Eagledad]

Well I certainly understand the concern of proper behavior at the memorial, we have the bombing memorial here in Oklahoma City. But I thought the "almost cheerful" atmosphere was an interesting comment.

 

There was a few opinions in the newspaper the last few year commenting how the culture seems to be getting too relaxed in our behaviors. One opinion claimed that dress down fridays are part of the cultural tilt toward rude behaviors. Well, I don't know about that, but I think airlines could make a little more by charging extra for flip flops. Flip flops set the travel dress bar very low and can be a safe issue in a crash.

 

Barry

[perdidochas]

Flipflops popularity on flights is primarily due to the TSA, IMHO. I wear easy to don/doff shoes whenever I'm going to be on an airplane.

[Beavah]

Yah, if yeh don't want people wearin' flip-flops or slippers on airplanes, don't make 'em have to take off their shoes to get on airplanes.

 

One of da hardest things to get across to policymakers is that people aren't computers which will simply change their behavior in accord with a change in da program. They are organisms, selected by millions of years of evolution and God-given free will to respond and adapt to changes in their environment in creative and efficient ways.

 

So if yeh forbid 'em from campin' or eatin' in the park, then perhaps they'll eat on da front steps of businesses near the park and get in everyone's way. Or perhaps they'll go to Paris instead of Rome.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagledad]

I agree Beav, the first thought about the Tourist Tax article was the repercussion of the tax. For every action there is a reaction. Black market snacks in nearby restrooms?

 

Barry

[Trevorum]

Rome doesn't appear to be proposing taxes, but rather fines. In contrast, Florence and Venice are mentioned as having taxes to support historic preservation. In the case of Venice, quite literally "support".

 

Good point, Beav.

[NJCubScouter]

I think the "zones which have a particular historic or architectural value" is probably the key to the thing in Rome. The part about encampments or shelters probably comes down to "Don't be homeless in front of the tourists!" Kind of the way New York City cleared all the peep shows, dirty book stores, etc. out of Times Square in order to make it more family-friendly for the tourists some years back. I'm not sure about the part about stopping to eat and drink, though. A person's gotta eat. Maybe they don't allow hot dog stands, food trucks etc. in historic districts in Rome?

[packsaddle]

Is there an exception for communion?

[Peregrinator]

Is there an exception for communion?

 

I know your tongue is in your cheek and I've never been to Rome, but my guess is that the ushers look out for people trying to take the Host out of churches.

[Papadaddy]

When preparing for a crash, I believe passengers are told to remove their shoes, so they can go down the slide without puncturing it. I don't wear flip flops, but I would rather leave a $1.49 pair on the plane, than my dress shoes. On the OP, manners are simply not taught by parents or schools any more. Anyone try to host an event recently when RSVP is required? My son got married last year and out of a list of 200 people, 50 said they were coming when tracked down for an answer...then failed to show up. That was 50 dinners at almost $100 a head that went to waste. And people showed up at the rehearsal dinner after saying they couldn't come, resulting in a last minute scramble to get them a meal. "Oh, we didn't think you'd mind"..."Mind...hell yes, I mind, you moron!"

 

And the SCOTUS just ruled that "tax" and "fine" are interchangable terms.(This message has been edited by papadaddy)

[Kahuna]

Yeah, but people in the BSA have long been known to be somewhat obsessed with the idea that flip flops and bare feet are the bane of society. It's been that way since the 1960s. Even in Hawaii, where so many Mainlanders have crept into Scouting over the years. I blame the hippies.

[perdidochas]

Kahuna, I hear you. It's the same around here in FL. The BSA here is obsessed with shoes. Crocs were allowed for a while, then they decided to ban them. Sad to me, because I think crocs are the best camp shoe around. Light, comfortable, easy to put on. Similarly, for light duty hiking, I would rather wear Teva sandals than anything else.

[Tampa Turtle]

I am now confused as to what we are discussing on this thread...Taxes on Scout Shoes on Airplane Crashes?

 

I think governments, kings, whatever have been modifying behavior intentionally or otherwise since time immemorial. Tax the frontage of the building the buildings get tall and skinny; tax the number of floors--we invent the mansard roof; give businesses a break on heavy vehicles and hummer sales take off...I am sure the arrow was invented when the king caveman taxes throwing rocks.

[NealOnWheels]

The discussion of showing proper respect at memorials reminds me of an incident our Scout troop witnessed at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Arlington Cemetery just recently.

 

The area around the tomb is called the plaza and is roped off to keep people out of the area. Tourists wait around this rope to witness the changing of the guard every 1/2 hour. While they are waiting they watch a single guard slowly march from one end to the other, turn about, pause, then continue to the other end repeatedly until the time comes for the changing of the guard ceremony. The only sound you here are his shoes as he walks and turns. The guard does this to precision and seems not be distracted by the visitors.

 

Apparently while we were there a tourist was sitting by the rope and extended his feet under the rope. All of the sudden the guard breaks his routine, lunges toward the offending tourist, points his bayonet tipped rifle at him, and yells "Please remove your feet from the plaza!". The guard waited in that pose until the feet were removed at which time he resumed his march.

 

At the time I thought the poor guy must have been humiliated and I was glad it was not me. That certainly is more effective than taxes or fines.