Political trends

[moosetracker]

Exactly why Republicans need to loose until they can turn around and put their house in order.

 

Personally I have not seen Obama change faces.. I started writing my own long analysis, but found this link that was much better.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57505315/obamas-2008-promises-kept-or-broken-/?pageNum=6&tag=contentMain;contentBody

 

Most have been kept, some parcially kept and he is continuing to work on, some did not get through, but not because the President changed his attempt to push for them.. I think there was only one that was broken and he went in the opposite direction in a change of mind on how to get the economy jump started..

 

Really a pretty impressive run down if you compare it to other broken campaign promises by past politicians..

 

Hope & Change was the theme the campaign came up with early on, before the collapse of Wall Street. Maybe it would have been different if wall street had collapsed a few months earlier. Maybe it would have become "Digging our way out of Disaster", or something like that.

 

This time around, I can see Obama is a little bit more conservative on what he is promising. I will take that as an attempt to still be honest in his pledges while being a little bit wiser that it is not so easy to get all he wants passed, due to the problems in Congress.

 

The only disappointment I guess I had was he was not able to get Congress to work together. And I think that was a campaign promise.. But, again.. I guess I will not put the blame on his doorstep. No one foresaw the signing of a pact by Republican Congressmen to obstruct him at every term, regardless of how it hurt the healing of American.. In fact the desire that America not heal under Obama's reign. The circus in Congress is ridiculous! The other thing, not a promise, but one I saw as a possibility from Obama, was he would use his great oratory skills to do more State of the Nation addresses, keeping us more informed of what was going on.. I think with the state our country was in, we needed that insight to help us keep abreast of what was going on, what was working, what did we the people need to do to help the country back on it's feet..

 

Now democrats might have made pacts also to oppose certain Republican bills, but never to oppose every bill for the full 4 year term of a President. If they did, we would have more of a history of the type of filabustering we have in Congress now. We don't..

 

So if Republicans took control, things might work better because Democrats would put the health of America to the front and work out compromises.. But, as far as I am concerned, that is giving in to Republicans who want to take America hostage by throwing temper tantrums..

 

I feel the better way is to send a message to Republicans that America will not be taken hostage, and if they don't change their ways then they will loose control of anything.. Be that a message to the Tea-party section who is holding the Republican party hostage already, or be that to the whole Republican party, because if you loose your Tea-party base and the you split into two seprate parties, you will both be smaller.. So basically the Tea-party group needs to grow up, so the Republicans can go back to being a sane alternative. But, I don't see that, I see them getting stronger and angry and nastier and they are set to destroy the whole party..

 

Now Romney may be a victim, but it isn't all the fault of the Tea-party people. He was playing games in MA running for governor. This is a liberal state, he was not run by the Tea-party there.. Yet he stated he paid taxes to MA so had not moved to Utah. At first he played the "I won't show my taxes, just trust me." Then he retroactively paid MA taxes when it was found out he had listed his primary residence in Utah and had not paid MA taxes.. He also stated his link to MA over that time period due to flying back for Business conferences also had phone conferences at Bain.. Now that this is a major time period of the outsourcing, he never had any Business conferences or worked over the phone during that time period so retroactively retired from Bain.. So how can he have both be true depending on how he wants to spin it to his benefit?

 

Look at how his election campaign is running.. This should tell you how good he is at management. It is an utter failure. Mixed messages, bad decisions (like Clint Eastwood, and the Libyan comment and doubling down on it) , inner turmoil, people jumping ship, stupid gaffes.. He is saying he is great at being a turn around guy, yet his reaction to his sinking ship is There is no problem. We are tied in the polls. Is he clueless, or does he think his staff is clueless, or does he think the American people are clueless?? Who is he lying to that he thinks will believe this rhetoric? Then what is he still concentrating on? Raising money! He doesn't need more money he needs to work on finding a consistent message and getting the message out.. And they have decided next week to put Romney and Ryan back together.. It is well known that you cover more ground if the two go separately but Romney needs Ryan's support again, he is not doing well on his own.. So what is the great example of Business intellect??

 

As stated, Obama may not have a radical NEW plan for the next four years, but his plan though slow has been working, even with the obstruction of Republicans in Congress. Romney is stating we need to go back to the Bush plan.. No thanks.. Lets go forward even if it is a slow plan.. Even though Obama was not good in the last four years of keeping us abreast of what was going on. I would trust him over Romney to do better with that in the next 4 years.. Romney has shown us he will lie.. We could have New York city hit with a neclear bomb, and I would expect Romney to get on the air to tell us nothing is wrong with New York city..

 

[Second Class]

 

"I know a lot of Republicans who don't want to put bumper stickers on their car, because they are afraid of vandalism"

 

Having had the bed door of my truck kicked in last go round, yes, I don't use bumper stickers.

I was parked the the local university, so it being a random event, nah, not so much.

 

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Why the phenomenon of vandalism directed at property advertising conservative affiliation?

 

Knee jerk moderates will, in a disagreement over whether 2+2 equal 4 or 9, opine that it's probably 7. They're quick to remind us that "there are extremists on both sides." And there are. But having miscreants on both sides doesn't negate differences in tendencies.

 

It's more than just that leftists tend toward conformism and an impulse to punish nonconformists. There are more reasons why Leftists tend to take particular offense at politics challenging theirs, and are more prone to think of the offense as a violation that justifies retaliation.

 

Central (but often unacknowledged or even denied) in lefty politics is forced collectivism with few to no limits on government authority to do "good," to decide what's good and to force people to do it. For the leftist, the collective approach that solves some problems, should be applied to all problems... to all things. To leftists, if you're not part of THE solution to the problem (or worse yet, if you don't even think it's a problem), you are the problem.

 

Some leftists excel in cold calculation when calculating how to gain power. But for most, politics is more about emotions, feelings, and wishes for good things than about cold, calculating efforts to actually build a good society. It's a juvenile approach to the world - thus the old saw about anyone who isn't a liberal as a youth has no heart and conservative later in life has no mind. So, with childish wonder and imagination, when the facts don't support their positions, they pretend... and they get angry at anyone who won't pretend along with them.

 

Anything that reminds us of realities that undercut leftist fantasies of immanentizing the eschaton... anything that exposes the weak foundation of ostensibly good but impotent ideas that underlies their preening moral exhibitionism... anything like that is offensive to the point of blasphemy to many leftists.

 

Along with this greater propensity to be offended, leftists are more prone to believe they have a right not to be offended. Conservative expression is for some of them, a trespass they think justifies retaliation.

 

[moosetracker]

Callooh! Callay! - you must be a tea-party member. That jibberish was utter.. Jibberish..

 

The problem with math is on the Republicans side. No one can make the Ryan budget work out.. It is pure poppy-cock to free the rich from paying any taxes, raise the military budget by trillions and not require the poor and middle class to take on the burden by lost programs, higher taxes, and loss in funding in the society infa-structure like education and roads & bridges..

 

You call the liberals idea of freedom to do what you believe best forced conformity.. But it is not conformity to force your religious views of heterosexuality, and limiting family planning choices..

 

Liberals are calculating how to Gain power?????? What about the Republicans voter suppression moves to disenfranchise many valid citizens of their right to vote if they are poor, black, hispanic, women etc.. Groups that would be primarily Democratic.. Besides voter ID, which make it hard for poor people to get the money for supporting document and the time from work to try to get to licensing bureaus that can not be reached by mass transit and are only open a few days a week.. They are purging the polls of people months before the election.. Closing Poll places in cities where it is again harder for people who depend on mass transit to get to.. Reducing early voting days that helped poor people who could not take off time from work on a weekday (in Ohio, they then tried to give those early voting days back to Republican leaning districts while keeping them closed to Democratic leaning districts.. Until the population found out and their anger forced them to close early voting for all).. They make sure city polling places (tend to lean Democrat) have too few of booths so the line to vote can be 4 to 8 hour long while Republican leaning polling places have more then enough so you are in and out in less then 5 to 10 minutes.. There is more, but I can never remember the full list in one sitting.. But to top that all off they have trained one million Poll watchers to be spread out, they say it is enough for all polling places, but I think they will go light in Republican leaning states and districts.. Anyway they have been trained on how to harrass anyone who is black, poor, hispanic in order to discourage and scare them away from the poling booths..

 

In Florida a court judge stated the Republican Govenor could not end early voting in poorer communities due to the Voters Rights Act.. When one voting clerk stood up to his harrassment to get him to close, he threatened firing him.. The guy is close to retirement, so dared him as he would love to sue him and get an nice nest egg for retirement.

 

A different type of power control by Republicans - Michigans Republican Govenor who has taken it upon himself to appoint emergancy managers mainly to Democratic based city governments. These managers would kick out all the elected official, limit fire & police by firing some in the towns making dangerous situations, firing teachers and making class sizes in public schools about 70 pupils per class.. Also ending all types of union negotiations for fire, police and teachers.. They then forced the town to pay the salary of the emergancy manager who was chosen by the govenor to dictate over their town.. Now if the town if financial trouble was republican, then they may also have gotten an Emergancy Manager, but he would then work with the elected official not kick them out of office.

 

Please state similar examples of power control by Democratic leadership..

 

 

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

"Please state similar examples of power control by Democratic leadership.."

 

Why? Will similar examples change your mind? A person sincerely wanting to know of such examples will research the matter themselves rather than entrusting the task (simple though it may be) to a character who writes "jibberish."

 

Callooh! Callay! posts may occasionally illuminate things some wish weren't so. But this isn't a research service. The curious ought find sources written in a register they comprehend. Then, minds fortified with information on par with their vituperation, with reading practice and careful study, confusion could give way to clarity and their reading comprehension might improve such that these posts will no longer read as gibberish.

 

[moosetracker]

OK, I just thought I would give you a chance to back up your jibberish with clear reasonable facts.. Guess you don't have any..

 

I'll help you out with the piddly few I have heard argued.

 

I have even heard of is the gripe about paying for female health care.. But, since many religions believe in peace and are against war and the Republicans still will tax them to pay for war anyway, (and tax them a much higher percentage for it.).. That kindof still is tilted unequally to the Republicans forcing people to pay for something their religion doesn't believe in.

 

There is the equal push you- pull me over gay rights.. But both parties are equally fighting that battle, and if the gays win it doesn't effect you from continueing your own family practices and beliefs, but if the conservatives win they will be enforcing their beliefs onto a group of people and hurting their lifestyle, although it still will not effect you.

 

Oh, I heard Rush Limbaugh, complain that the poll figures leaning toward Obama having significant leads is the Democrats attempt to suppress the Republican vote.. Doesn't make sense to me though. If your loosing you need every vote you can get, if you think your canidate has an easy victory then you might think you vote is not needed.

 

Can't think of anything else.. And neither tops the other power plays the republicans are actively and exclusively engaged in.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

"I'll help you out with the piddly few I have heard argued."

 

Indeed, that does help.... the quality of reasoning and writing in that exposition is exemplary of a significant component of the left so far unmentioned in this discussion.

 

[moosetracker]

If those piddly few are all you got, then I win.. The Republican base is far more power hungry and controling then the liberals..

 

But thanks for confirming I have a good handle on both sides of the arguement.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Yes, bristling with handles constructed of a quality of reasoning and attached to reality by a kind of logic exemplary of the left. The penultimate (as of this writing) Moosetracker post shows us just how firm is the left's grasp on matters.

[packsaddle]

I know this is probably 'before-your-time' but you guys might want to refer to what I like to think of as the 'Ed-Merlyn' Show from a few years back. (to take this even further back, that's a [clever?] play off the idea of the Ed Sullivan Show)

 

Wouldn't it be nicer to discuss the thread topic rather than each other?

Callooh! Callay!, since you seem to be a passionate critic of things liberal, help me out with my support for Romney. Please bring to the discussion what you think the positive aspects of his Presidency will be.

[OldGreyEagle]

Thats easy Pack, the best feature of a Romney presidency is it wont be Obama. Just like Obama's best feature was he wasn't named Bush.

 

Waiting to see the dreck that 2016 produces, this one is over Oh yeah, Obama wins.

 

Anyone remember the Bob Dole Campaign for Presdent? He didnt really look good until 2 weeks after the election... This feels like a repeat

[moosetracker]

Seriously, when our government makes laws forcing you or your wife to either use birth control, or as Beavah notes, forces you to become sterilized. Then come see me. This would be a violation to your rights..

 

Seriously, when our government forces everyone to have homosexual relationships even if against their religion or their will. Then come see me. This would be a violation to your rights..

 

Paying Taxes for a bundle of stuff some of which you approve of, some of which your religion does not agree with, has been the American way of life ever since the first tax law. Allowing people the freedom to decide what is best for thier life, as long as it is not hurting or harming their neighbors life style is also an American belief..

 

But, ok, For you it is a serious, serious matter that you are not allowed to make up laws to force your neighbor to follow your religious beliefs, even though they are not of your religion.

 

Are you happy?.. Not piddly at all, very serious power controlling nasty stuff that liberals are against the rights of the conservatives to control their neighbors rights who are so bold as to not follow the conservatives religious beliefs.

 

-------

 

As OGE says, Romneys only claim of being better is "I am not Obama..". Doesn't work, if your not an Obama hater..

 

People say his campaign needs to get more wonky.. That was the whole lift out of the Obama National Convention was Clintons wonky speech..

 

So what happens? Ryan gets serious with a power point stump speech.. Is it on the Romney/Ryan plan for the economy?.. No, it is a power point stump speech on why Obama is so bad.. I am surprised as they don't have anything the American public would want to buy, so they keep it under wraps. Tell us not to worry our pretty little heads about it, as it is too wonky for us to understand.

 

Not so sure if the election is in the bag yet. It is a worry of how much effect the voter suppression games will be.. We are hoping it will make people mad so many who normally don't vote will, but if they need to wait in a 4 to 8 hour line to do so, with poll watchers harrassing them? Don't know if their anger over this loss to their most basic right as an American Citizen will carry them through that barrier.

 

2016.. I think the Democrats are really looking forward to a Hillary Clinton run.. She has made a great name for herself with these last 4 years as Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.. Imagine Bill Clinton as our First Gentleman.. Democrats will be really disappoint if she chooses not to run.. I was not sold on her four years back, but I am now.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[packsaddle]

OGE, you may be correct that Obama is going to win. But there's still time for that rare event to intrude on what we think is inevitable. I'm not bent out of shape over this race because I don't really see either one of the candidates having much control over the fate of the nation. I just see Romney as the better businessman (aka manager) while Obama has not come through on some important promises he made at the beginning.

To me, my relatively low expectations for the future will tend to make it easier for whoever comes out on top to meet my expectations. But Obama has already failed me in some issues and Romney's obvious willingness to change with circumstances and needs means that I can't take his promises seriously, like I did with Obama. Romney is not a 'true believer' for conservative issues the way Obama IS a 'true believer' for liberal issues. To me that makes Romney more realistic about his approach.

If the business outlook of measuring everything in terms of dollars and profit is dispassionate and uncaring, then I embrace it as the American Way. It is the basis of the American economic system and I feel like it's time to give it a chance at government as well.

 

Moosetracker, you and Callooh! Callay! both seem to be 'way out there' in terms of ideology and passion. I sincerely hope that neither of you burns up on re-entry.

[moosetracker]

While a social liberal (obviously).. I am a fiscal conservative.. Which is why up until this election I have been Independent.

 

When Republicans get their social ideas up to the 21st century (or at least up to 1980 or 1990's rather then the 1880's), and they return with a viable fiscal conservative (who knows his a$$ from his elbow) again. I will be very happy to be an independent again.

[skeptic]

Why can't everyone be "independent" and simply vote whomever is perceived as the best option, rather than the best party. Rose colored glasses are pretty, even if they they do obscure reality. It is time for "Mr. Smith" to magically succeed in his candidacy.