packsaddle Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And in another year or so, even the Catholic Church is beginning to move away from their previous rigid stand. I wanted to note that while a majority of states now have legal same-sex marriage, a lawsuit in this state poses an interesting challenge to the current ban. I read this morning that the two women who are suing the state have a set of twins for their children. One of the women actually gave birth to the twins and here's the interesting part: the other woman was the genetic contributor of the ova - and even though SHE is the genetic mother of both children, the state will not recognize this fact for any legal question. This is an interesting conundrum because if the state successfully defends the ban, they are essentially arguing that a genetic mother no longer necessarily has any legal standing. Interesting. I suspect even this state is going to have legal same sex marriage soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Interesting. Courts have also held that a non-genetic father is still liable for child support and by implication the genetic father is not. So will the genetic mother have no legal standing but still be liable financially? Or will it end up as whoever has the money is the one liable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And in another year or so, even the Catholic Church is beginning to move away from their previous rigid stand. Beginning to, but don't expect some radical overthrow of the status quo. At the most, there will be a shift in tone, but not in doctrine. Some of the language may change (and should) "Intrinsically Disordered" has always made me cringe a bit. The church is always going to hold that marriage is one man and one woman. It might not condemn gay marriage or premarital sex as strongly as it has in the past, but it won't condone those things either. I think even some of the more conservative Catholics are open to having a more friendly open tone, but are afraid of being misinterpreted by certain corners of the media. As for the government, a combination of the voters and the Courts will make gay marriage legal in all 50 states. KDD: Didn't a genetic father get held for financial support in Kansas? http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/0...hild-support/? Sentinel947 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st0ut717 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And if a new scout shos up at your dn / troop meeting and says here are my 2 dads / moms? Are you really going to turn them away and make them feel uncomfortable. Deny the beenfit of scouting to this non-traditional family? deny the boy the all the oppirtunites that scouting gives? me personnally i would try to integrate them as much as we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And if a new scout shos up at your dn / troop meeting and says here are my 2 dads / moms? Are you really going to turn them away and make them feel uncomfortable. Deny the beenfit of scouting to this non-traditional family? deny the boy the all the oppirtunites that scouting gives? me personnally i would try to integrate them as much as we can. My comments where very specifically about the Catholic Church. Please don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Sentinel, I read that as the impersonal form of 'you'. Or else he was thinking about me since I'm the one who restarted this thread. In that case let me assure st0ut717 that this unit would welcome the boy and his parents without hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st0ut717 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Sentinel.... not directed at you or I would have quoted you or specified by name e.g. this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 And if a new scout shos up at your dn / troop meeting and says here are my 2 dads / moms? Are you really going to turn them away and make them feel uncomfortable. Deny the beenfit of scouting to this non-traditional family? deny the boy the all the oppirtunites that scouting gives? me personnally i would try to integrate them as much as we can. Kinda cuts into one's adult leader recruiting model. Must be kinda awkward handing out adult registration forms and having to pass up these people. We'll take your kid, but not you. Instead, you need to drag out your checklist and make sure that both parents have legally adopted the child or at least have legal guardianship papers so that they will be allowed to accompany the boy to camping outings. Oh, yes, if they do not have the legal documents they can't go, and their boy can't go either. Don'tcha just love these hypocritical can-of-worms? Not to worry, there's plenty of parents on the sex-offender registry that have children in scouts and can attend with their boys. And today's lesson, children, is brought to you by the letters: "C" "Y" and "A". Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Well, I'm not sure what THAT was all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st0ut717 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I do... National has said no to GL leaders (not going into the current PC alphabet soup) Even though they may be parents of a scout. and have full legal marraige. as of now what do we do with those parents / families. because a family that comes to scouting because their boy wants t. That boy is a highly motivated scout. and we are shutting that family out and losing the resources that they would bring to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCastor Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Even though they may be parents of a scout. and have full legal marraige. as of now what do we do with those parents / families. because a family that comes to scouting because their boy wants t. That boy is a highly motivated scout. and we are shutting that family out and losing the resources that they would bring to the table. YES! I've been shouting this LOUDLY for a long, long, long time. I do realize that all Scouting is local and, in my particular locality, I can't recruit anymore because of the membership policy. Some gay couples have come to my Troop to visit and we welcome the Scout AND the parents. Nonetheless, our community shuts US out because we are viewed as an evil entity that won't accept gays and lesbians. It really makes me sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 According to marriage laws, just because a man marries a woman it does not mean that the man automatically becomes the parent to the boy, nor does it mean he is the boy's legal guardian. Take that and complicate it with the new gay marriage issue. Oh, we had a "father" molest his son on a scout outing? But he's married to the boy's mother. So what, his father is his mother's Ex. If one is not going to check out all these different dynamics, at least have a good lawyer on retainer. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 When I first saw this thread near the top of the heap and saw that it was a two-year-old thread (last post more than a year ago, before today), I thought to myself, "What [unkind colorful metaphor deleted] decided to dredge THIS up, and in what terrible direction is this discussion going to go?" Then I saw that the culprit was our esteemed senior Moderator Packsaddle, who always does things with only the best intentions, and who I count as a good friend even though I have never met him. So, okay, I am sure there was a good reason. But as for the direction it has gone in since then, I can only say it is Confusion. There have been about 12 posts in the "new" part of the thread and I cannot even count how many different issues are being discussed already, and am not really sure what some of them are. I do think JBlake makes a good argument for local option on adult leadership, though I suspect that is not what he was trying to do, unless I have misunderstood his position all these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Sentinel.... not directed at you or I would have quoted you or specified by name e.g. this post I apologize for assuming that was directed at me. I don't have issues with gay leaders at my current CO, which is a more open Lutheran church that would probably accept them anyways. If I was a leader for a more conservative CO, like a Catholic or Baptist CO, then I'd be sabotaging the church's youth ministry by hiding gay leaders that the CO wouldn't want. It's a tough situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st0ut717 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Sentinel. No worries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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