NJCubScouter Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 That's right, acco. 57 years old and never been married. What's up with that? After all, you can't be too careful. Who's next, Associate Justice Elena Kagan? (Now, do I really have to put a smiley face here so one or two people won't think I'm serious?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Folks ya missed the point... Duh, what did he think would happen???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 "There is a difference between simply living your life within the view of others and making it a public issue." And what is that difference, skeptic? Since you say there's a clean line, where is that line drawn? What makes someone openly gay vs. openly straight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Cellarliver - exactly what point did I miss? Yes he forced the hand of the BSA by self reporting he did not meet membership criteria. So, I don't think he was surprised by the BSA's action. One may argue the wisdom of his decision just like some may question my decision to continue to belong to an organization that continues to set membership policies that I feel are not in the best interest of our youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBob Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Beavah: "it's about privileged access to the hearts and minds of impressionable young folks." Eloquent and center mass on target. Even for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I just re-read this article and a couple of things strike me as curious: First, this guy wrote to "BSA leadership" and told "them" he was gay, and then the BSA leadership... did what? They wrote him a letter back and said his registration was terminated and he couldn't be involved with any unit? That's the letter they wrote to James Dale. That's the letter that I think most people have assumed they would be writing to anyone else who announced he was gay. But that isn't what they seem to have done here. The council's statement says that "council leadership met with him and he made the decision to resign as a volunteer leader." What? Did they ASK him to resign? Did they TELL him to resign? How does the word "resign" even come into it? But at the same time, they seem to have threatened the CO with a loss of charter if he wasn't removed or "resigned". So what actually happened here? Is there a change in approach, if not in policy, going on here? Or is it just that the Lincoln Council tries to do things more diplomatically than the Monmouth (NJ) Council (the one in Dale's case)? Second, it sounds like the IH, a Catholic priest, was ready to let this openly gay man remain as a leader until the council told him that the church would lose its charter for the troop. What's up with THAT? Has the Catholic church adopted the local option on openly gay leaders in Boy Scouts? Or did this particular pastor just not get the memo? (No offense to Catholics meant here, some of my best friends, not to mention my wife, are Catholic. I just didn't think that this is the way a Catholic priest would be dealing with this situation.) Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA24 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Sounds like whoever "BSA:" is (council? National?) learned from the previous PR nightmare and instead of just booting the guy they tried to reason with him and get him back inside the closet to save face and a good, long-term leader or asked him to step down after trying to provoke them publicly. I can understand why someone raised on television would think that the manly thing to do is to stand up, throw your medals at the Irving, TX office building, flip them the bird, and walk away never to look back. But it has never worked in the past to get anyone to change. If you want change, join the group, work your way up, and influence other members to see things differently. Posting here is more effective than quitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZMike Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 From a follow-up story: He also said he and his partner attend Our Lady of Lourdes and it is widely known that they are gay. He contacted Scouting officials in part, he said, because he was no longer comfortable hiding his sexual preference in his role with the Boy Scouts when he was open about it everywhere else, including at Humana, where he has been involved in an organization of gay and lesbian employees. I am finding it increasingly difficult to keep a low profile and stay in the closet with the Boy Scouts, he said in a June 22 letter. . . Catholic officials initially refused to request Bourkes resignation. Our Lady of Lourdes pastor Fr. Scott Wimsett and archdiocesan Scouting liasion Fr. Jeff Gatlin both supported Bourkes disclosure of his orientation. Later, however, higher archdiocesan officials decided to support the Boy Scouts anti-gay policy: (Note: this comment is unsourced. - bear in imd, this is from a blog that supports homosexuals within the Catholic Church.) In a statement,[Cecelia Price, archdiocesan spokesperson] confirmed that the Boy Scouts contacted Wimsett and Gatlin and that both responded that they believed it was up to the Boy Scouts to enforce its policies. Price said the archdiocese later concluded that the charters signed by church pastors require them to conduct Scouting programs according to policies set by the Boy Scouts of America, as well as Catholic Church policies. Her statement also said that it is the expectation of the Church that adult leaders whether heterosexual or with same-sex attraction in any ministry strive to lead chaste lives and seek to both accept and witness to the full teachings of the Church on chastity and charity, including teachings on the sanctity of marriage. http://newwaysministryblog.wordpress.com/tag/brooke-hinkle/ This from another article: Bourke told local media after he refused to resign, the council contacted the churchs priest, Fr. Scott Wimsett, and later Fr. Jeff Gatlin, the Scouting liaison for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Louisville. Bourke claimed both refused to remove him from his Boy Scout post. He stepped aside only after the Boy Scouts threatened to revoke the churchs scouting charter. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2921118/posts ...and... Bourke, who initially refused to quit, said in an interview that he decided he had no choice after the Rev. Scott Wimsett, pastor at Our Lady of Lourdes, told him Thursday that the parish might lose its Scouting charter unless he left.... Bourke said that officials from the Lincoln Heritage Council then called Wimsett, the pastor, and asked him to remove Bourke from his leadership role. And when Wimsett refused, the executives contacted the Rev. Jeff Gatlin, the Scouting liaison for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Louisville... Bourke said Gatlin told him that he also rejected the Boy Scouts request. Neither priest responded to phone calls; Cecelia Price, an archdiocesean spokeswomen, said they cannot discuss a pastoral and personal conversation with a parishioner and volunteer. In a statement, she confirmed that the Boy Scouts contacted Wimsett and Gatlin and that both responded that they believed it was up to the Boy Scouts to enforce its policies. http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120819/NEWS01/308190057/Boy-Scouts-force-out-gay-leader-Louisville So, we only have Bourke's word that the 2 pastors refused to kick him out, as the two priests understandably can't comment. The arch-diocese says, no, the priests felt the Boy Scouts can decide how to enforce its policies. Unless these two priests are really out there out of touch with their Church's teachings (which does happen, but from looking at the parish's website, it doesn't sound like it is an uber-liberal parish), it would be unlikely that they would support an openly gay parish member living with his partner. They probably were compassionate and supportive in their statements to him, but it's unlikely that it happened the way Bourke is claiming. It sounds like there is some spin going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetracker Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 NJCubScout - Second, it sounds like the IH, a Catholic priest, was ready to let this openly gay man remain as a leader until the council told him that the church would lose its charter for the troop. What's up with THAT? Has the Catholic church adopted the local option on openly gay leaders in Boy Scouts? Or did this particular pastor just not get the memo? Most Catholic priests fell in line with the memo from the Pope & Bishops to crack down on all social issues that were starting to get a little lax.. But, some priests and nuns flipped the Pope the bird so to speak.. There were some priests who have stood up in their churches to say, I'm suppose to preach to you about this, but our congregation does not work that way.. Their congregation gets up and cheers them.. Many Nuns are also speaking out, they see their mission as helping the poor, sick and needy. They think this is enough. I don't know if this church was one of the brave souls to preach they would not follow the Pope & Bishops plans.. Maybe they just conviently lost the canned sermons they were issued, or read them with no heart and conviction.. "OK, words from the Pope.. Blah, Blah, Blah.. On to the next thing on the agenda." Anyway in deed, they were not willing to follow the memo from on high to crack down. The Catholic church has some brave souls. They are not quite the Borg.. (Beavah loves me saying that, as then he can tell me how much I am prejudice against the Catholic Church..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 A short digression: blame Moosetracker. Does anyone know why the hand gesture she referred to (the one-finger salute)...does anyone know why that is called 'flipping the bird'? I've heard this most of my life (well, after about age 5) and I do remember my first impression of first putting salt on their tail with a salt shaker and then, once frozen in position so you can catch them, you flip the bird. It was a while (as is my fate it seems) before I caught on. Anyone know? Now, back to your regularly scheduled program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA24 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 http://bit.ly/1ep2eP(This message has been edited by bsa24) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrinator Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The Catholic church has some brave souls. Indeed, those who are willing to uphold Church teaching in the face of opposition from society and the State are brave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Churches were often leaders in opposing "scientific" Marxism and now they are often leaders in opposing "scientific" liberalism. "How many divisions does the pope have?" sneered Stalin. A later generation of scientific Marxists discovered --- a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Gad, what the heck is a 'scientific' Marxist? Groucho in a lab coat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Marx and Engels made claims that socialism was scientific, and this became an article of faith in the Soviet Union and among other Communist parties. "Scientific socialism" became part of the political dogma of Communism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_socialism The socialists of my college days often made references to scientific socialism to buttress their claims of being right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now