Future BSA President Intent to Eliminate the Ban on Gays

[Beavah]

Yah, moosetracker, that wasn't particularly charitable. Or coherent.

 

Charitable contributions always interest me. It interests me that da Ryans' charitable contributions jumped so much as he was seein' his political star rise (though they still amount to less than a traditional tithe).

 

It also interests me that his income rose so dramatically. I find it fascinatin' that fellows who take a public service job for relatively modest wages seem to do so well for themselves.

 

Da most amusin' thing will be Romney tryin' to explain why he paid less tax (as a percentage of income) than his Veep.

 

Beavah

there, packsaddle. I didn't even mention sex.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Your response give me some hope that at least the politically aware conservatives will look at the whole picture of what the Romney/Ryan ticket proposes, and see there is far worse in what they are proposing then the benefits to the conservative social agenda..

 

I was surprised to read that the catholic priests & bishops for all their uprising on Obamacare, are also very against Romney & Ryan.. I was not so surprised by the nuns as many of them were not in such a tissy over Obamacare, and are having problems with the Popes & Bishops about caring more for the poor and needy and not so much over the conservatives social agenda. I guess that might be why they are so quiet, they don't know who to root for now.

 

So hopefully we will get some votes from Conservatives for Obama because he is simply not as bad as Romney.. I am also hoping Romney's flip flopping (and now having Ryan also flip flop) will help to keep conservatives from turning out, because they won't trust what he is standing for..

 

I've heard of flip flopping over a few years, you can call it changed attitudes.. But when you do so 4 to 5 times in a single week it gets a little confusing.

[vol_scouter]

Moosetracker,

 

If you are a conservative, then there was no Republican candidate in the primaries including Romney and his running mate who is as bad as Obama. Obama is the worst president in my lifetime (Eisenhower on) with only Jimmy Carter being a distant second. So don't hold your breath on true conservatives crossing over despite Romney and Ryan being a weak ticket. By Obama's own criteria, he should not be re-elected.

[moosetracker]

Oh, I don't expect the tea-party Republican to cross over. But, I was an independent that voted Republican pretty consistantly until Bush jr tanked the USA.. That is your president that should be espounged from history of ever having been president. Lies about dangers from foreign countries when there was none. Spending for wars with no way to pay for them. Putting in place a stimulous plan with no way to pay for it. And the entire tanking of the USA into what would have been a depression if not for Obama's actions to pull it from total depression back to the worst recession, almost depression..

 

For me, Obama should have saved Medicare $700 billion in Fraud and waste, and left it at that rather then rolling most of what he saved back in to close the donut hole of things medicare was not paying for. Yes, it helped senior citizen, I am sure they were happy for it, but they were not expecting it. Still that plan is much better then giving the money cut from fraud & waste back to the insurance companies, and then remove that same amount from the seniors benefits (or basically make them personally pay for that fraud & waste.)

 

He also should have pushed the Democrats in Congress to not except the extention of the stimulous package for anyone. Even now, Democrats may be standing up to Republicans pushing for the Stimulous for everyone again. I say let it end for everyone. I know Democrats want it to end for everyone then bring it back for everyone up to the first 250,000 of everyones earnings.

 

I can not blame him for not being able to control a Congress when the Republicans all signed the Norquist pledge to not accept anything the President wanted to accomplish. Rather then debating, and finding workable compromises. Given the hostile congress he had, I think stabilizing us and the slight improvement in employment after B

 

Obamacare, I don't know if it is good or bad. But, since it is basically Romneycare.. I am not voting for Romney to get rid of it.

 

Anyway, I do know of several who hate Obama, but will vote for him rather then Romney who wants to take us back to where Bush left off and continue downhill from there.

[packsaddle]

And I appreciate it, Beavah, thanks.

Wasn't this supposed to be about the 'B'SA president, not the 'U'SA President?

You guys are trying to confuse me, aren't you?

[AZMike]

"It also interests me that his income rose so dramatically. I find it fascinatin' that fellows who take a public service job for relatively modest wages seem to do so well for themselves."

 

I think that's because of the income from his wife.

 

Ryan's bishop has some interesting comments on whether Ryan's economic beliefs are "Catholic" or not:

 

http://www.madisoncatholicherald.org/bishopscolumns/3366-bishop-column.html

 

 

[moosetracker]

I have to admit I kind of flounced over some of that middle of what is evil to get back to what he thinks about Paul Ryan. But, I think that having a logical debate over what is evil in the middle of Whoopie, one of ours is on the Republican ticket is pretty amusing..

 

So, I got:

 

1. Whoopie, one of ours is on the Republican ticket. And one from my diocese, so I guess I have to root for my home team!

 

2. What is evil?.. Definitely, abortion, homosexuality, etc.

 

3. Not helping the poor & sick may be evil but not intrinsically evil. (Or at least it isnt something that is the fault of my diocese having taught it to him.)

 

4. OK, everyone polarize and figure out which is the worst of two evils in the next presidential election.. We will get through this.

 

I think I got from that he was going with Romney/ Ryan, out of some loyalty, and careful internal analysis of which he personally thought was more evil.. But, with the enthusiasm of a limp dishrag.

Not a great rally of the troops there. Not even a great endorsement.

 

 

Like I said, before the end of the Republican primaries. Catholic leadership was preparing it's flock to vote as a unit against Obama. Now they all have quieted down, and each are having their own personal rationalizing as to which is the less of two evils to vote for.

 

Some really don't see Ryan as much of a Catholic due to his love for Ayn Rand's philosophy. Which of course now he is taking his queue from etch-a-sketch man and erase that association

 

Packsaddle BSA President - honorary President what's the difference? But, you are right. Having this battle under this thread title, will keep many who might argue politics but not sexual orientation rights in BSA away

 

(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Peregrinator]

I don't know much about Sen. Ryan and his adherence to Ayn Rand's politics -- but it seems to me that if he were heavily influenced by Rand that he would not be in politics at all.

[moosetracker]

Which is why now that he is slated for VP he is trying to etch-a-sketch, or disown her "retroactively"..

 

But it was required reading for all any intern in Congress who worked for him.

In 2005 he gave a speech praising Ayn Rand for a group who are Rand fans..

In many speeches he has given he sites Ayn Rand..

 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/08/paul-ryan-and-ayn-rand.html

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/paul-ryan-book-club-shrugging-off-ayn-rand/

 

Here is one of many videos of Ryan speaking on Rand. This one is dated 2009.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Paul+Ryan+and+Ayn+rand&view=detail&mid=38FCA8587191B29C755438FCA8587191B29C7554&first=0

 

[packsaddle]

OK, I give up on staying on topic.

So...what is the problem with Ryan being an Ayn Rand devotee? I understand the potential political impact. I'm mostly trying to understand why people would object?

 

It's kind of like that question I asked AZMike in the other thread which he seems not to want to answer, the one related to health care and eugenics. I get that people don't like certain ideas. I'd just like to understand the reasoning for their dislike.

[moosetracker]

I think for those of us who will not vote Romney/Ryan anyway, it is just an interesting and fun fact, as well as fun to watch him squirm, twist and lie his way out of his firmly held very public comments that he has based his political values on Ayn Rand.

 

I did not know this, but I guess it hurts to be an atheist in politics, Republican or democrat. Few atheists get into office. But, when you add in the fact that Republicans tend to be you conservative, religious base.. Ryan now wants to be seen as Catholic, with no Ayn Rand ties except for maybe in his youth.. Some Catholics are not letting him slink back into the fold that easily.

 

Of course he was a kind of quirky Ayn Rand fan anyway. All for her political views to be totally self-sufficient, but then his views towards womens rights were very conservative catholic. Those who laugh at him now distancing himself from Rand state Rand would have never wanted his support anyway, as she did believe in women rights. So she would never have been happy with his admiration. This is similar to some musical band Ryan says is one of his favorites. Rage against the Machine does not want Ryan for a fan. They say Ryan may have a whole lot of rage. A rage against women, a rage against immigrants, a rage against workers, a rage against gays, a rage against the poor, a rage against the environment. Basically the only thing he's not raging against is the privileged elite he's groveling in front of for campaign contributions.

 

[packsaddle]

I guess I didn't ask the question correctly. I couldn't care less about Ryan's problems with slinking and all (I agree, it is somewhat amusing but I have felt similar things about -name the Democrat-). I want to understand what it is about Ayn Rand that makes association with her politically toxic. I'm familiar with her views on a variety of subjects but those seem to be loyal to a libertarian perspective. So again, is it 'bad' to be libertarian?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It's because Ayn Rand has atheist cooties, packsaddle.

[moosetracker]

What Merlyn says.

 

Paul Ryan could say exactly what he has said for years, and never sited Ayn Rand as the person who shaped it. He would just be an uncaring, self-centered politician.

 

But, Ayn Rand was an atheist. This causes his Catholic Leaders to not want to associate with him and his policies. If he is associated to atheists rather then Catholics it seems the voting population will not vote for an atheists, similar to how they use to not vote for Catholics, blacks or women. The other bars are starting to come down, but not athiests.. I think it was somewhere that I heard there is only one atheist in Congress. I don't know how it works out for Govenors or mayors.. Perhaps Merlyn might know.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

There's one OUT atheist in congress (Rep. Pete Stark of CA), but according to the Secular Coalition's poll of congress, there are 28 members of congress "who do not personally believe in a higher power" (a little over 5%).