Eagle Scouts turning in badges?

[BSA24]

The Scoutmaster has no right to determine if an Eagle badge is presented. He can't even decide if he is presenting it. The badge is awarded by the designated person the Eagle Scout chooses. It's a national award. It is not a unit award. Unit and district leaders, once they sign off on the BOR, are no longer part of the process and have no say in what happens next.

 

I personally know two SM's who were tossed out of BSA as adult leaders for trying to "add requirements" and hold Eagle Awards hostage.

 

The boy earned the badge. No matter what he does, you give it to him. It's his. Not yours.

[SeattlePioneer]

Remember what you posted Bando:

 

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I simply pointed out how other people could duplicate your willfulness, but that clearly doesn't appeal to you.

 

For how many people did you spoil the ceremony? Quite a few apparently, but you didn't care.

 

 

 

[packsaddle]

SeattlePioneer, your reaction needs to be examined as well. Another adult leader might have calmly waited while the boy's ceremony continued and then taken the opportunity to talk with him about how people react to situations like that. Another adult leader might have used the event as one more opportunity to teach the young man about communication, tact, discretion, etc.

 

But you didn't describe such a lesson. You described an outraged, perhaps angry adult who uses his position of power to shut the ceremony down...simply because HE didn't like it and he had the power to shut it down. THAT is a much different lesson taught not only to the young man but to everyone in attendance. It is a lesson that if you have the power you can control everything by denying access or ending events if necessary. It teaches that if you have that power, it is YOUR thoughts that count, YOUR feelings that count, and others are secondary. It teaches that POWER over others is good and desirable, perhaps as a career or life goal. It speaks volumes about the 'character' of the adult leader.

[sherminator505]

Yes, SeattlePioneer, I'm sure that from your perspective you showed more decorum at your ECOH. Whatever.

[Bando]

"For how many people did you spoil the ceremony? Quite a few apparently, but you didn't care. "

 

Actually, none. One can disagree with someone without letting that disagreement get them so hot and bothered they let a matter of ideology ruin their day. By "not making friends," I mean that it was not a popular opinion to state, but I had no problem with expressing it if it would help make my organization better.

 

It seems you handle dissenting opinions a lot differently than most other adults would, and I think that's a problem you may need to evaluate on your own. A scout is courteous. And there are many ways in which different opinions can be shared and discussed without anger, and many venues in which they can be brought forth.

 

I used an opportunity to discuss an aspect of scouting I wish to change. Scouting taught me to stand up for what is right, and to seize opportunities to improve my community. I did that.

 

You can continue to act like you were there, and that you know better than all of us what is appropriate and what is not (read: what you agree with and what you don't), but at the end of the day, I am content with how I voiced my opinion, and never had anyone in my troop contest my right to do it, or criticize the means by which I did it.(This message has been edited by Bando)

[Bando]

I should also add that I take the Eagle Oath rather seriously. As a refresher, in part it states:

 

"On my honor I will do my best to make my training, rank, and influence count strongly for better scouting and for better citizenship in my community, in my troop, and in my contact with people always."

 

Seems to me there is a responsibility there, and we're seeing Eagle Scouts all over the country take this sentiment to heart when it comes to voicing their opposition to the membership policy.

[Sentinel947]

"On my honor I will do my best to make my training, rank, and influence count strongly for better scouting and for better citizenship in my community, in my troop, and in my contact with people always."

 

Ahhh, thats the best part, and so wonderfully ambigious.

[BSA24]

There is no official Eagle Scout Oath. That's just the work of some volunteers trying to make impressive ceremonies. I took no such oath when I received my Eagle award. I had to research it to see what you were talking about.

 

There are also Eagle Scout "challenges" which are speeches give at COH's people have written, pledges, and charges.

 

The Scout Oath and Law suffice and are appropriately vague to not become tools to mandate a particular viewpoint.

[Sentinel947]

Haha. Very interesting I didn't know that.

 

and I was aware of the Ambiguity of the Oath and Law, that's sort of the point.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello packsaddle,

 

 

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I simply proposed a thought experiment in which Bandos willfulness in acting out inappropriately would be returned in kind. He didn't like it when the kind of thing I suggested was imposed on him as a thought experiment. I'm not surprised.

 

>

 

That's what Bando said in his opening post describing his actions, although he wants to mute the abrasiveness of what he did in later posts.

 

He still thinks his bad behavior was justified. Of course that's common among those convinced that they are morally righteous. It is used to justify a lot of bad behavior.

 

 

 

[BSA24]

I am unable to determine from what Bando wrote if he engaged in any bad behavior or not. He may have been very polite and composed as he stood up for what he believed.

 

Teenage boys read the news. They know about the policy. The policy is BSA's. Talking about the policy is not forbidden. I don't see the offense unless he yelled, shouted people down, or called names.

 

He just said something you disagree with when he had the stage, and you apparently don't like the idea of someone doing that.

[Horizon]

SeattlePoineer stated "He still thinks his bad behavior was justified. Of course that's common among those convinced that they are morally righteous. It is used to justify a lot of bad behavior. "

 

That sentence describes the issue with this debate, regardless of the side.

[Bando]

SP, you keep using the phrase "bad behavior." I still can't figure out your point. Especially when I continued to be active as a youth member of my troop for three years, and as an adult for three more, with no one raising any concerns about my ECOH, nor my behavior, or my ability to intelligently and coherently express myself in accordance with the Oath and Law.

 

I think I've conducted myself in an above board way in this argument, without getting hysterical, angry, or making accusations I am not qualified to make. So I'm done. SP, if you wish to continue to make assumptions about what and how I voiced my support for inclusive scouting in a forum where I was invited to speak about whatever I wished, in an event organized to honor my achievements at which you were not in attendance, that's your bandwidth to expend.

[acco40]

Bando - you acted "uppity" by not knowing your place and daring to rock the boat!

 

Seriously, this reminds me of my senior year in high school. I graduated in early June of 1974 (he resigned in mid-August that year) and it seemed that the seniors (I feel 18 year old were much more politically active back then than they are now due to civil rights, draft/Viet Nam, generational differences, etc.) were split and quite vocal in defense or disgust with former president Nixon. Was discussing such an issue appropriate for a graduation ceremony? Again, many were split on the issue. My take was that we, the student body, elected who should speak at our ceremony (my graduation class was approx. 1,600 kids and we graduated on three different night with more than 500 students at each ceremony - does student overcrowding ring a bell to any other baby boomers?) and we knew by virtue of who we elected what type of speech they would probably give.

 

As for myself, if you stated your opinion in the spirit having a passion for the program and the desire to see the gates opened up for more youth - great. As with any opinion, the are considerate ways and boorish ways of stating them.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Humbly accepting honor with dignity just isn't enough for one who can't resist the opportunity to make a pecksniffian spectacle of himself, playing El Ingenioso Eagle Scout de La Mancha.

 

Of course we may overlook and forgive the poor form if the one doing the preening also has a record of consistently standing up in more appropriate venues for that which he preens in his ECOH.