Eagle Scouts turning in badges?

[moosetracker]

Well, I am not given to public speeches.. But my Username is not kept secret to those I know also use the Scouter forum.. I don't hide from being from NH, and except for a few towns, NH is from one council.. So I have been PMed and honestly tell people who are in my council who I am.

 

If in a small discussion group on the topic, I will voice what I voice here. But, I don't work hard to funnel the conversation into that direction.

[Basementdweller]

Kinda what I thought....

 

 

Seattle would never jeopardize his status in his district and council.

 

Moose would never start the conversation in a large group...

 

 

 

Bando, your membership can be revoked by anyone from your local unit thru National. Happens fairly regularly if ya rock the boat.

[Sentinel947]

Basement, are you seriously suggesting that if someone even disagrees with the BSA they get kicked out?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

SeattlePioneer writes:

 

[NJCubScouter]

I'd be inclined to send them a letter regretting their decision, but noting that records of their obtaining Eagle have permanently expunged.

 

Because they sent in a piece of metal and cloth? It's a useless and pointless gesture. It has no real consequences for anyone, including the sender, except that if they later decide they want an Eagle badge I guess they have to look for one on ebay.

 

As for what Bando did (and what SeattlePioneer said about it), I'd say it's borderline-appropriate (my actual conclusion would probably depend on whether he talked about it for two minutes or less (ok) or a half an hour (hey kid, your 4-year-old cousin wants to know when she gets to eat the cake.)) Seriously though, we spend years teaching these kids to think for themselves and do things for themselves, and then when one does so in a way that doesn't fit into our nice neat ceremonial box, we call them names? I don't think so. We don't know exactly what words Bando used, but assuming he spoke in a respectful manner, I don't see any violations of the Scout Law here -- and certainly nothing that would warrant "not awarding" the Eagle. He was already Eagle. He was just being given symbolic tokens of his accomplishment with his friends and family present, and he chose that moment to make a "statement." I don't see it as a big deal.

[Jeffrey H]

If a Scout decides to turn in their Eagle, I would strongly caution them that their decision should be considered permanent and reversal is unlikely. If the BSA ever becomes the organization they desire for it to become, they may regret their action.

 

 

[Eagle732]

"Unit level, how many have had a heart to heart with your COR, He has voting power at the council level right?????? A district or too of COR could beginning the change.... Or would he throw you out for such talk... "

 

I've had this talk with my COR and received clear instructions on what the CO's beliefs are. I run my troop accordingly.

 

As far as sending Eagle medals back, do what you want with your Eagle medal, I'll keep mine thank you.

[Eagle732]

"If a Scout decides to turn in their Eagle, I would strongly caution them that their decision should be considered permanent and reversal is unlikely. If the BSA ever becomes the organization they desire for it to become, they may regret their action. "

 

Na, they can just buy another one on eBay. Being an Eagle is not about a medal, or at least that's what I tell my Scouts.

[moosetracker]

Kindof what I thought.. Moose would never start the conversation in a large group...

 

True.. But then Moose never really converses in large groups on anything, always a subset of a large group. And Moose doesn't start the threads on the forum, simply adds her opinion to a thread already started.

 

Now if I have to teach a course I might have a large group.. But, doing a personal opinion podium speech in a training course would be over the top.. Bando's ECOH was about him, and he was encouraged to give a small speech presumably about BSA as it relates to him.. So as NJCubScouter says, as long as it wasn't too long winded ok.. A training course during class time when you are to stay with the syllabus should not be time to voice your opinions.

 

If though BSA ever changes their syllabus to require us to teach people how to use gaydar, and how to kick people out when the gaydar alarm sounds.. It will be time to stop doing training.

[NJCubScouter]

Jeffrey H, do you (or anyone else here) have any evidence that the BSA actually revokes someone's Eagle when they send it back in protest? It just seems very unlikely to me that they do so. But if you can prove me wrong, prove me wrong. It would definitely say something about the current national leadership and management, and not something good. But I really doubt that it's the case.

[NJCubScouter]

One more thing on the Eagle ceremony; in our troop's "standard ceremony" there is always a time for "Voice of the Eagle", usually it's one of the last things in the ceremony (before the soda and cake, or the salad and ziti and whatever if the family has decided to turn the ceremony into dinner.) Usually the new Eagle thanks their family, leaders, fellow Scouts etc. and then talks mainly about their project. Some get a little more creative and talk about their future plans, and/or what Scouting has meant to them, etc. I think one told funny stories about what happened on a couple of camping trips, in response to a couple of his buddies who had given a similar speech earlier in the ceremony. In other words, it's their time. If they want to talk politics, they can talk about politics, but they may then learn what people think about discussions of politics in settings where people aren't expecting it and some might not think it's appropriate. It's all part of the learning experience.

 

This reminds me of a story (not a funny story, but a story). I remember as a teenager, attending the Bat Mitzvah of one of my cousins, and it was during the Watergate scandal, and the rabbi gave a sermon about Watergate and what he thought of it and the moral lessons it can teach us. In the particular place and time and with the general composition of the "audience", it is probably reasonable to expect that most of those in attendance agreed with him. I know I did, and my parents did. But I suspect there were those in the audience who, regardless of whether they agreed with his statements, thought it was inappropriate for a rabbi to make what was essentially a political speech (with a moral lesson, but still a political speech) during a service that was focusing on the accomplishments of a 13-year-old girl. Hopefully he cleared his idea with my uncle and aunt beforehand, but I don't know about that.

[Bando]

SeattlePioneer, and you're certainly entitled to couch your opinion in the most abrasive, presumptive way possible. But that doesn't mean you will get away with bullying your view through to the finish.

 

I used my short response at my COH to thank everyone who helped me get where I was, and took a moment to lament the fact that the BSA's membership policy limited others from having the incredible experience my family and I had in scouting. Scouting taught me to stand up for what is right in a respectful, courteous way. I think I did that, and don't particularly care what an angry anonymous person on the Internet who wasnt there wants to assume about it.

 

If the BSA wants to revoke my membership for opposing a membership policy that is increasingly isolating the organization from mainstream American society, I think that says more about Irving and their understanding of American citizenship than it says about me.

[fred8033]

I always viewed this as oxymoronic. If your an Eagle scout, you protest by returning your Eagle badge. If your a scout, you protest by dropping out. So then at that point, your not a scout. So then as a non-scouter, you protest by putting on a scout shirt.

 

(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[packsaddle]

For this unit at least, the family of the Eagle holds the COH and the scoutmaster has neither the ability to cancel the ceremony nor the authority to revoke the award...no matter how much of a martinet he is. He would be free, however, to simply leave.

 

If you had done what you did at an Eagle COH in this unit, most everyone probably would have just shrugged and some, perhaps, may have asked you for more info at the reception afterward. The worst you could do is to somehow mar your own celebration and perhaps embarrass your parents and family. But it would be your time and your decision under the First Amendment. I wouldn't consider it a violation of Scout Oath or Law. But I would have thought it was one of the more interesting COH's I'd ever attended.

[Eagledad]

>>I stood up in front of over a hundred people at my Eagle COH, some six months or so after the SCOTUS Dale decision, and clearly voiced my opposition to the LGBTQ membership policy.