Northern Star Council - Inclusive

[johnponz]

"That's really the crux of the matter, Beav. The BSA is not your club. It's not my club. It's an organization for the youth we serve."

 

The above statement is not really true. The Chartering Organizations are the real customers and "shareholders [think stock]" of National. The "Ultimate Customer" is the youth membership, but National's direct customer is the Chartering Organization. There is no doubt in this fact. National, Region, Area, Council and District are all there to support the Chartered Organizations. These Chartering Organizations are the entities who really run the BSA, and the National Board speaks on their behalf. It is these individuals who have the votes at the Annual Meeting if they really want to change the policy (any BSA policy).

 

Guess what, for whatever reason the Chartering Organizations do not want to change. More than likely, the reason is they view that allowing gays into the organization violates the principles of their organizations. Who are some of the biggest of these, LDS (Later Day Saints), the Catholic Church, the Methodist Church? These organizations probably do not want to let gays into the BSA.

 

The National President, CSE and others are simply reflecting the wants of the Chartering Organizations (think corporate governance-not governance of the masses). Guess what the Chartering Organizations probably do not want the added headache of setting this membership standard. It is probably better for them if they can point to a National policy rather than defend a local position. It is nice when Corporate takes the heat off a little.

 

The individual Unit Leaders and Scouts do not get a vote here. Why because they are not stock holders (as in a business). To reiterate National does not represent the individual Scouts or leaders but rather the interests of its stock holders (chartering organizations).

 

Scouting is not a quasi-government or a quasi-democracy but rather a non-profit business entity with an Executive Board that reflects the wants of its Chartering Organizations. Sometimes those of us in the field forget that point.

 

To change National's viewpoint, you would need to change the viewpoint of the chartering organizations. Considering who those are, and their religious beliefs, I wish you all good luck with that.

(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[RememberSchiff]

Printed in NY Times on Valentine's Day 1988

 

The National executive board in a meeting in Washington, D.C., voted to allow women in leadership positions, including scoutmaster, ending a male-only policy

 

"Many positions in the Boy Scouts were already open to women, said Barclay Bollas, national news editor for the Boy Scouts. Of the 1.1 million volunteers within the program nationwide, about 500,000 are women, he said."

 

"For 12 years, the Boy Scouts had successfully defended legal challenges over its policy of allowing only men as leaders but decided to drop the restrictions because the court challenges had become too costly, said Ron Phillippo, executive director of the Indianhead Council, which includes eight counties in eastern Minnesota and four in western Wisconsin."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/02/14/us/boy-scouts-to-allow-women-to-be-leaders.html

 

 

[nldscout]

Beav,

 

Your wasting your breath. The gay community and its PC inclusive supporters won't be happy until they have destroyed the BSA. No matter what you say only one viewpoint matters, thiers.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

nldscout, are you saying the Northern Star council is trying to destroy the BSA?

[AZMike]

johnponz's corporate analogy seems pretty accurate.

[NJCubScouter]

nldscout, are you saying that I (for example) am trying to destroy the BSA?

[ChaiAdventure]

I am not sure that I agree with the statement that the Charter Organizations are the customers....at least not directly. I can see that National provides a program for youths, and youths belong to units which are chartered...but as far as CO's being the customer....

 

It is the youth (okay, us parents) and volunteers that provide the funding that goes to national, whether it is dues, insurance, boy's life, uniforms, or program purchases. Charter organizations pay a pittance a year to national. What I can see is that unified groups of Charter Organizations can hold leverage over National by threatening to support units. Lack of support to units means less units, less membership, less money to National. But to call them the customers...I think that is a stretch.

 

After all...the mission and vision of scouting never once mentions charter organizations....

[RememberSchiff]

Holy Trinity Church bulletin Aug 5,2012 page 4:

From Pastor Fr. John Paul Echert of the Holy Trinity Parish, South St. Paul, MN

 

REFLECTIONS

PARISH SCOUT UPDATE

 

Last week I briefly noted a conflict of policies between the Boy Scouts of America, which is the national organization overseeing scouting programs, and the North Star Council, which oversees much of Minnesota and western Wisconsin. Specifically, the policies regarding the matter of whether or not openly homosexual individuals are excluded from leadership positions and membership in the scouts or whether they are welcome. The national BSA recently reaffirmed its longstanding position that the organization does not grant membership to those who are open homosexuals or would engage in a behavior that would distract from the mission of the Boy Scouts.

Despite intense pressure from homosexual lobbyists and activists and some pressure from within the BSA itself, the national organization held the line. By the way, their stance on this issue was legally affirmed years ago, when the BSA was sued over its exclusion policy; the court determined that as a private organization, they had the right to set their own standards.

 

Subsequent to learning of the BSA reaffirmation of its policy on this matter, I learned that the local North Star Council does not adhere to this national standard. In a recent article that appeared in the Minneapolis Star Tribune on this topic, it was clear that the NSC follows a practice of "inclusive leadership selection. I acted upon this information immediately, to determine if the article accurately reflects the policy and practice of the North Star Council, under which Council our parish Boy Scout and Cub Scout programs geographically fall. I communicated to the leadership of the NSC that as pastor of Holy Trinity Parish, I could not in good conscience allow this policy and practice to apply to our parish-based programs and that I was prepared to sever our decades old parish relationship with the Scouts. The NSA leadership did respond to my concerns and have assured me that as pastor, I have the prerogative to set the moral standards for the scouting programs in our parish and to determine its leadership as well. While I disagree with the NSC in their inclusive policy, I appreciate their willingness to work with us to resolve the potential conflict that could have ended our outstanding programs here.

 

That being said let me formally articulate our policy and practice here at Holy Trinity with regard to this moral matter. We will continue to follow the unchanged policy of the national organization of Boy Scouts of America, which does not grant membership or leadership positions to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA. We can add the additional condition that we do not grant

leadership or membership positions to individuals whose lifestyle or expressed views are contrary to the mission of the Catholic Church as well. This is the same standard we apply to our employees and volunteers within the parish, including our parish school program.

 

Meanwhile, there remain issues unresolved with regard to the Girl Scouts at the national and state level. As reported in the Star Tribune article, Both the state and national Girl Scouts of the USA allow lesbian members and troop leaders in its ranks. Beyond this there is credible evidence of collaboration between Planned Parenthood and Girl Scouts USA and a growing element of radical feminism. I will continue to investigate this and explore alternative programs.

 

Pastor Fr. John Paul Echert

 

 

www.staugustine-holytrinity.org/bulletins/bulletin8-5-2012.pdf

(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

[moosetracker]

So RS sounds like though your church does not want to be welcoming to homosexuals (maybe would prefer NSC to follow national). They can work with the local option that allows them the ability to follow national rules (plus whoever else they choose to exclude).

[johnponz]

In the business world, who votes and has the say at annual meetings of stockholders? Of course, it is the stockholder. The "ultimate customer" does not get a vote. If you do not own stock, it does not matter that you are a customer of Comcast and have TV, phone and internet service through them. Same with BSA, the ultimate customer does not get a vote at these meetings.

 

There is a difference between Comcast and BSA though. BSA (I believe-I do not know the numbers for sure) gets the bulk of their funding through corporate sponsors. The sponsors get a tax break for the donation.

 

In the end BSA's Executive Board acts like a Board of Directors that serves the interests of the stockholders who in this case are the chartered organizations. When viewed this way the actions of National make a lot more sense than viewing them as some quasi-National government which they are not.

 

[nldscout]

Based on conversation with a person on national staff that I have known for yours NSC will in all probablity quietly change its policy and make a similar statement like other councils who tried to break ranks in the past.

 

It will happen without fanfare and just quietly disappear off the radar.

[moosetracker]

Given National strong arm policy I would imagine so.. Then NSC will just have to continue doing what they have done for 10 years without a statement about it.

 

They will probably loose some charters who will want an assurance there will be no gaybash patrol from Council or National barnstorming their meetings to haul off homosexuals.. There will be others that will be fine with a quiet reassurance..

 

If they change the SE or do something drastic, that truely marks an end to policy, it will have more drastic consequences of CO's dropping their units. And the council will after that mass exodous willbecome like all the other council with a slowly spiraling downward momentum of membership numbers.

[RememberSchiff]

Unless there is a related drop in membership or $$$, why would National mess with Northern Star's success now? Father John's statement shows that CO's can still control their scouting program and set their own membership policies (inclusive or not) and scouting goes on.

[Fehler]

What would national's "strong arm" policy towards Northern Star be? Replacing the SE? Is the SE a National employee or a Council employee? Break the council up into smaller sub-councils? We just merged the Indianhead/Viking Councils (Minneapolis and St. Paul) together, ostensibly to "save money" and to "streamline efficiency". And if you know anything about Gay Rights Activists, you know there is "No Going Quietly". A move backward will be seen, and heard.

[johnponz]

The SE is a Council employee, but National "certifies" the individuals who are eligible for this position so I suppose they could take away that certification, and a new SE would have to be found.

 

They also can hold the charter over the Council's head. National could say that the Council cannot recharter as long as the current SE is there. Finally, National could just refuse to recharter the Council which means no insurance, no advancement, etc.

 

They could also "Black ball" the current employees in that Council so they could work in no other Council in professional positions.

 

National has many types of "strong-arm" methods if they want to use them. I guess the more important question is why should a corporate parent allow one of its chartered entities to break a national policy that it (National) has set? It seems to me that National is within its rights and probably has the responsibility to bring this rogue entity into line.