Northern Star Council - Inclusive

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

SeattlePioneer writes:

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

SeattlePioneer writes:

 

[CalicoPenn]

"A similar issue is $1 billion in funding paid by government to Planned Parenthood."

 

One: It is not any where near $1 billion. In 2011 it was $363 million - 70 million through Title X funds and $293 million through Medicare. It has not increased by much for 2012 - even with the replacement grants being given in a few states that eliminated funding to Planned Parenthood. Exxageration weakens ones argument.

 

Two: Planned Parenthood receives these funds to provide health services to women all over the country - services like cancer screening and basic health screenings. They get funds through medicare the same way any other clinin gets funds through medicare - as reimbursement for costs incurred in treating patients. Planned Parenthood is the largest network of women's health centers in the United States - they do far more than just serve as a birth control agency and most PP clinincs don't do abortions - they provide direct health services and screenings.

 

Though I don't begrudge the BSA for getting support from the government to run their jamboree, in no way is what they get comparable to what Planned Parenthood receives - Planned Parenthood provides direct services that the government pays for - the BSA provides the government nothing (no, I take that back - they provided them with a mess at Fort AP Hill that the Army had to clean up).

[BS-87]

Listen to how explosive this subject is.

 

Is it any wonder that the BSA finds this conversation wholly inappropriate for Scouts and Scouters to be having?

 

Someone being openly homosexual always forces this conversation to take place. It doesn't even matter who is right or who is wrong. Both sides end up embarrassing themselves and exposing children to a level of vitriol that cannot be tolerated. I concede that in many communities it would not explode into "faggot" this and "bigot" that, and that's why a local option's still the best remedy.

[BSA24]

Interesting that the conversations about homosexuality in the military have for the most part disintegrated into nothing after acceptance was finally accomplished, isn't it?

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Oh, I imagine scandals of various kinds and descriptions will be in the press and politics. It takes some time for things like that to mature.

[cchoat]

Camp A.P. Hill has also hosted the Boy Scouts of America National Jamboree in 1981, 1985, 1989, 1993, 1997, 2001, 2005, and 2010. The number of participants each time included approximately 35,000 Boy Scouts and some 250,000 visitors. After the very costly 1973 and 1977 National Jamborees, the Boy Scouts wanted to find a 'permanent' location for the Jamborees, to lower the costs associated with establishing a temporary city every four years. They worked with the Military to find a base so that infrastructure like roads, plumbing and electricity would not have to be installed every four years. They paid to have some permanent utilities installed on-post for use every four years.

 

What most folks do not understand is that the Army welcomed the BSA to use the facility because:

 

1. The BSA paid for the improvements that were necessary to put on the activity. And when the Jamboree was over, those improvements remained to be used by military units conducting their normal military training. For the 2010 Jambo, the BSA contributed (donated) over 7.5 million dollars in improvements to AP Hill. Some of these improvements are now enjoyed by active duty, reserve and NG families as part of the post's MWR activities.

 

2. We provided the army an opportunity to conduct realistic training. That's right, the units involved in setting up, running and tearing down the site were able to practice their real life military mission of providing combat service support. Be it a field hospital, field kitchen, water purification unit, field sanitation unit, etc, were able to train as they would had they deployed, only now they supported real people, in real time. The cost of the military personnel,and their logistics was the only "cost" borne by the taxpayer. But what is not mentioned is that the cost of this training would still have occured, because it would have been conducted anyway. the difference being that it would not have been as realistic without the real life mission the Jambo provided.

 

3. It was a recruiting bonanza for the Armed services. All those high quality future potential officers and enlisted recruits in one place, allowed the military to showcase itself.

 

With the loss of the BSA's involvement with AP Hill, it is the taxpayer that will lose out. The "PC" folks may have "won" the battle, but again their short sightedness has lost them the war. The BSA now has a new site that it not only owns, but can improve into the future with. No taxpayer monies required.

 

 

[nldscout]

"Is NLDScout the type of leader you want for YOUR sons?'

 

Well, Gee. I guess since I was a SM for 12 yrs and still participate it must be. I guess around here in non-liberal land not being one of them is considered a good thing.

 

[eolesen]

Cchoat, thanks for pointing out the financial facts about the improvements to AP Hill and the training opportunity it presents for the armed forces who are learning realistic crowd control.

 

And yes, it is a recruiting bonanza. Go look at the fact that 25-30% of those attending the service academies are Eagle Scouts, and another significant percentage of enlisted recruits came up thru Scouting, including my Life for life Marine.

[BSA24]

> "Is NLDScout the type of leader you want for YOUR sons?'

 

We can't tell what kind of person someone is from their anonymous internet postings on this forum. We have no idea what they are like with the families they work with and the youth they serve.

 

Trying to assess someone's character over the internet is a combination of imagination, creativity, and delusion.

[NJCubScouter]

BSA-24, I partly agree with you: We cannot make a definite judgment on someone's character and fitness to lead youth based solely on some anonymous postings on the Internet.

 

However, when someone lets loose with a string of offensive terms for a group of people in a Scouting forum, and then after the post is removed, does the same thing a few days later, I'd say that's a pretty good clue that there may be an issue. In any event, it is not up to us to say who should be involved in some other unit. It is kind of within our "jurisdiction" to comment on whether someone who behaves in such a manner should continue to be permitted to post in the forum, and then those who are entrusted to make those decisions can make them.

 

From that perspective, I think the kind of behavior we are talking about here crosses the line and warrants some serious action. But I'm just one of the great unwashed masses here, not one of the deciders.

[Lisabob]

Frankly, I am more concerned with the fact that nldscout is a judge or magistrate (not sure which, perhaps he'd like to enlighten us).

 

I wonder if he feels that he provides impartial justice to those who appear in his courtroom and whose sexuality is uncertain in his eyes? Knowing the really unacceptable names he has chosen to call gay and lesbian people here on this forum, on more than one occasion in the last week or so, I am certain that if I were gay and had to appear before him in court, I'd be dubious about my chances of getting a fair trial.

 

This is actually pretty sickening.

[nldscout]

So you want enlightenment. If you get arrested and appear in front of me in court, I could care less what your sexuallity is. That has nothing to do with commiting a crime.

 

Being a member of the BSA is subject to certain rules. BSA has reiterated those rules, as reently as a week or two ago. That said, if you don't like the rule or can't live within them then feel free to leave.

 

No one is forcing anyone to stay. I gaurantee BSA will march on without any of us.

 

And for your information the questions of DADT ant Gays in the military haven't gone away. They are just being surpressed by commanders threatening soldiers to comply. It is already causing turmoil.

[Lisabob]

Thing is, nld, I don't know if I could believe that you'd be unbiased if I were to appear before you in court and you felt I might be gay. Not after you spewed all those offensive names - twice - about gay people. No different than how a racial minority might feel if they knew that you regularly used offensive racial epithets in reference to their ethnicity or race, even if you swore that you were not biased while in court.

 

It is entirely possible for a person to agree and support current BSA policy without veering off into deeply insulting name calling of the sort you seem to think is acceptable.

[NJCubScouter]

I suspect that in "real life", nldscout is pretty good about keeping his hatred "in the closet", so to speak.