Northern Star Council - Inclusive

[moosetracker]

So your going to wear it on your uniform, although registered to a different council?.. Hmmmmm... thinking...

[nldscout]

The same thing that happened in Philly will happen in Northstar. They will "Clarify" what they said and this will just die a quiet death as it should.

[moosetracker]

Philidelphia was different, they didn't have an inclusive program for 12 years.. they tried to make an inclusive policy to calm the community that wanted them out of their building..

 

National will probably do as you say.. But, this will cause those in the council to be infurated over the high handed dictates of National. In this section of the world there inclusiveness is a source of pride for them.

 

I forsee membership going way down, units folding, and except for some contributions from there small LDS groups, community contributions and FOS will be alot lower.

[nldscout]

Except they haven't had a policy of accepting immoral people for 12 years. This was a few people in authority trying to appease a minority again.

 

BSA policy and rules haven't changed. If your one of them, you can't be a member, plain and simple.

 

Since BSA has made a decision not to change, everyone now has to make up thier mind, they have 2 choice

 

1. Stay and work with the youth while following the rules.

 

2. Leave.

 

Its a simple as that, if you don't like the rules, then quit **** ing and just go, because those of us that want scouting as it is do not want your distractions.

 

Go somewhere else and start your own scouting group and leave ours alone.

[SeattlePioneer]

"Inclusive" is a red herring. The purpose of adult leader screening is to screen out people. Girls are screened out in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Atheists are screened out. Overweight people are screened out on some trips. Smokers are screened out in limited ways, as are those who drink alcohol.

 

Leaders under 21 are screened out in many positions. Tiger Cubs not in 1st grade are screened out. Illegal immigrants are probably screened out from leadership positions.

 

Nice try bringing in a new issue, but it doesn't wash.

[moosetracker]

nldscout, you make it sound like only the adults will leave. Adults will take their kids.

SP - What new issue? This topic has stayed on track discussing the Northern Star Policy.

 

Except they haven't had a policy of accepting immoral people for 12 years

 

BSA has always had policies to accept immoral people the stripper, wife beater, those who commit adultery, they are at the COs discretion.. You must mean "Except they haven't had a policy denouncing bigotry for 12 years"

[nldscout]

When I say immoral, I am refering to those people you refer to as homosexuals, what others of us call queers, dikes, fags, homo's, and other choice names.

 

My point is National made a decision as to who is accepable to be a member and those people are not. If you cannot accept what the membership rules are then I thank you for your past service and suggest you fold your tent and move on.

[BSA24]

LMAO @ American who thinks dissenting voice should be silent. Oh yeah. There's some real red-blooded American citizenship.

 

And you think an organization I have paid taxes to support for more than 50 years should be able to decide whatever it likes even while maintaining a government charter on behalf of all citizens of the country?

 

Scouts used to be about the outdoors. Apparently it has been hijacked in the last couple of decades by people who think it is about the religious right and being a republican. Maybe some of us would like to take it back and make it an outdoors program with a code of conduct again instead of a mormon ministry.

 

As Americans our citizenship entitles us to our opinions and input into policy and decision making. As members of this "private organization" we also have a right to our opinions and we can also influence public opinion and the actions of the people on top to change.

 

I don't want to be a Mormon. I want my scouting program to be something all Americans are proud of as an outdoor program for youth instead of something half of the country is ashamed of.

 

Get used to disappointment.

 

Or here's an alternative: Pay back all of the money and aid that has been given by the government over the last century using my tax money. Pay back rent for every jambo ever held at Ft. AP Hill. Pay back rent on every government building ever used at a discount or for free.

 

Rescind the congressional charter, release the trademarks on the word "scouting" and "boy scouts" and the badges. Release the copyright on the handbook.

 

All of that was done with my tax dollars. It was not done as a "private organization." I paid for it.

 

And you think I should be silent about how things work from here on out? That we just call it even and I quit because you don't like criticism?

 

I don't think that's going to happen. That doesn't even make any sense.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello BSA24,

 

 

Scouting has always been about a lot more than "The Outdoors." Sorry if you never noticed that.

 

I think you outline the liberal agenda for BSA quite well, and it makes the point of why trying to compromise with that agenda is a waste of time.

 

Planned Parenthood collects $1 billion/year from government while carrying out its various programs. Efforts by the right to defund Planned Parenthood haven't worked either --- so far.

[Abel Magwitch]

nldscout writes:

 

Since BSA has made a decision not to change, everyone now has to make up thier mind, they have 2 choices

 

1. Stay and work with the youth while following the rules.

 

2. Leave.

 

Its a simple as that

 

 

On the contrary, they can join the Exploring program and be counted with the traditional membership. The BSA condones the "immoral" to be members and leaders of Exploring which exclusively belongs to and is owned by the same BSA.

 

Quite the double standard don't you think?(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[fred8033]

Abel Magwitch wrote: "Quite the double standard don't you think?"

Not really. It's part of working in a multi-cultural society. When we work in our own private groups, we can express our own beliefs. When we work as part of public / governmental groups, we have to follow a different set of rules. That's life.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[skeptic]

BSA24

 

Not sure where you are getting your info, but copyrights and trademarks certainly were not paid for with your tax dollars. How you could even suggest that is beyond me. And, of course, the nonsense of using A.P.Hill for free; BSA paid tens of millions of dollars to the government for each jamboree for support of various types, as well as building some facilities used by the base during the time jambo was not in session.

 

Unless you are in Utah, chances are pretty good that the Mormon influence is not overpowering to other sponsors' units. In our council, LDS has little impact and tend to be very cooperative with the others. Of course they still run their own "brand" of unit, but it does not effect the rest of us other than when they check in to camp on Monday morning early, and the camp staff has to do a bit of scrambling, or when they leave COR Saturday nights in mass. We have access to their facilities for meetings much of the time, and other than not being able to have coffee, nothing is different than anywhere else we meet.

 

Your antipathy towards Mormons is almost on the level of a few other posters' in regard to AHG. Neither is a good example of the Oath or Law. And I am not Mormon; but I do have numerous Mormon friends in and out of scouting.

 

And, I do not get where the blather about the outdoor program comes from. Scouts camp far more today than we did as scouts in the 50's and early 60's, especially back country camping. They also do high adventure and cope in most councils, as well as at the National bases. Other than Philmont, Maine, and the Canoe Base were pretty much it in much of the country back when. Early summer camps were more like YMCA camps or church camps in the way they were run, with little or no unit camping like today, rather individual scouts more or less on provisional basis. Today's outdoor program is far more challenging in many respects, other than having the advantage of modern equipment. Sure, there are units that do not use the outdoor program well; but there were similar units going back to the beginning. Day hikes were more common in the very early days, as many scouts had to do chores on the farms, as well as little specialized equipment. My troop, which began in 1921 camped in orange groves and on the leader's ranch much of the time, though they did go to the end of the road into the mountains and camp too, either by truck or horses with mules. Of course, there are also many restrictions on things we can do in the wilds now. Because of wildfires, much of the camping area in the west is closed, or severely restricted much of the year, including the prime times. Hunting requires licenses, as does fishing. We cannot simply build a structure or cut trees because it is fun or convenient. We have to purify water in most cases to be safe. And of course we have YP and other restrictions caused by overly protective parents, litigation run amok, and legislators owned by corporations and other monied organizations.

 

There is much room for improvement in the BSA; but it is still far closer to its roots in many respects than most of our current society. That of course is one of the reasons people think it should change. Most that continue to support it, do so because it has strayed less from its base than others and refuses to abandon that foundation.

 

JMHO

 

 

 

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

skeptic writes:

And, of course, the nonsense of using A.P.Hill for free; BSA paid tens of millions of dollars to the government for each jamboree for support of various types, as well as building some facilities used by the base during the time jambo was not in session.

 

The US government funded the BSA jamboree for about $8 million (1/3 of the total cost) last time it was at AP Hill. Even if the BSA lays out $16 million for a $24 million jamboree, that's still a government subsidy.(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[CalicoPenn]

I will simply request that folks read NLD's post of July 29 at 8:21 am, which the moderator has not removed (as of this posting), and ask yourselves this:

 

Is NLDScout the type of leader you want for YOUR sons?

[packsaddle]

Calico, just to note that I have read that and if anything like that was removed in the past, I didn't do it. I support allowing words like those to remain as a permanent record.