Northern Star Council - Inclusive

[Oak Tree]

I'm not sure I get how much a council policy actually matters.

 

I would think that if a particular situation is brought to the attention of National, that National would still revoke the membership. And I did not actually see a direct quote in the article from the council that contradicts the national policy.

 

I did see the statement written by the reporter that gays and lesbians remain welcome in the units, but that is not a direct quote. I'm sure that it's true that gays and lesbians remain welcome in many units, but can you really guarantee that avowed homosexuals are not going to be kicked out by national?

 

Interestinger and interestinger.

[moosetracker]

I think you are being selectivly blind, to what you don't want to see.. They are going to word it so it is not crude. So don't expect to see something so blunt..

 

The statement I see that they are talking about adults and not youth is the following..

 

York said that the Twin Cities-based Scout council, one of the nation's largest, follow a 12-year-old "will continue to inclusive leadership selection" practice

 

So you can pretend that leadership is only that a gay youth scout could be SPL..

 

The next paragraph:

 

 

When asked how they could differ from the national policy, York said that it had "worked for us."

 

 

So what big thing are they differing form national in policy with, if they are not differing in policy?

 

But, being selectivly blind is good, it means some of the units in your area may be able to slide they homosexual adult leader under your nose..

 

 

 

 

[FScouter]

"That is not even a complete sentence. It conveys no information."

 

It would be simple be make a clear and concise statement of policy, but they chose to not do so. There is something amiss if generally intelligent adults have to think about it and wonder about it and generally cogitate ala "well, it could mean this, but on the other hand...". So... conveys no information.

 

By the way, units all over the country have been selecting their own leaders for decades - nothing new about that.

 

So, mumbo jumbo policy statements aside, how many openly gay Scout leaders in that council?

[moosetracker]

OK.. Here is another article.

 

http://invergroveheights.patch.com/articles/poll-should-the-mn-boy-scouts-change-its-position-on-including-gay-members

 

 

[BDPT00]

The article in the paper is written by someone who is trying to get a reasction. Success! It certainly slants the facts, and the headlines grab attention, so I guess the writer sold some newspapers. It's not a news article. The opinions stated in the Inver Grove Heights article show how quickly things can be twisted in either direction. The question was asked, "How many gay leaders in the Northern Star Council?" That's way off base. Nobody's asking, and nobody's counting. That's the point! Nobody cares, and nobody should care.

BDPT00

[Basementdweller]

Slide by??????

 

Ya know, I don't care if they are gay or not.....Good people are good people. Like I said earlier I know several gay scouters.....I know for a fact they are gay.......

 

I would ignore it unless they were acting out and then I would treat them as a hetero couple who was doin the same thing.

 

 

There was discussion, beavah and eamon posted about the BSA treating the youth as asexual, several years ago.....I thought it was odd at the time......But it makes sense now.

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

Well, I feel silly.. I wasn't talking to you Basement.. There was another post by someone who basically stated that the first news article was as ambigous as the website, and did not show they were doing anything different then National.. Now that post is just totally gone.. (a moderators post?.. They have done that before, posted, then deleted and my return post looks odd responding to no one.)

 

Your fine Basement..

[acco40]

Listen carefully everyone, the BSA does not exclude leaders or scouts due to sexual orientation. They do exclude leaders and scouts for homosexual conduct - however, conduct doesn't get defined in detail. Only by observing this "conduct" does one now become "known" or "avowed" as a homosexual.

 

I'm not trying to justify their position (I think it is ridiculous myself), just explain the nuances of their position.

 

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

From Wall Street Journal; Some Boy Scout Troops Disregard Ban on Gays.

 

Some excerpts:

"Every year when it comes time to renew its charter, Troop 729 in New York City crosses out a promise to abide by the Boy Scouts' policies because it doesn't agree with the long-standing prohibition on openly gay members and leaders. We just don't practice discrimination in our group," said Scoutmaster Antonio Camacho. He said the troop's stance was backed by its sponsor, the Fort Washington Collegiate Church."

 

"BSA spokesman Deron Smith said he wasn't aware of Troop 729's policies. "However, Scouting has one policy that applies to all troops and councils. Any time we're aware of any inconsistency in the administration of a Scouting policy we work with the local council to reiterate the policy and ensure its compliance with the local leaders," he said by email. "

.

 

"We want to reassure you, our friends, neighbors and colleagues, that the local Boy Scouts, Troop 500 in Amherst, does not support BSA's policy prohibiting the participation of gay adults or youths," says the letter, which is expected to appear this week. "We do not and never will discriminate on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation."

.

 

The Northern Star Council, representing more than 75,000 youth in Minnesota and western Wisconsin, according to its website, came out publicly last week saying it will continue its "inclusive leadership selection."

 

Kent York, the council's director of marketing and communications, declined to comment further, referring to its website, which states that the council doesn't discriminate "with regard to ethnicity, religion, gender, disability, and/or sexual orientation."

 

The BSA said it currently is working with the Northern Star Council to "clarify" its policy. (I forget who on this forum predicted this action by National).

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443343704577551162306364148.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

My advice to National is hands-off Northern Star Council and observe local option at work.

 

My $0.02

[fred8033]

I hope Northern Star gets can make their stand and just move on from the silly public debate.

[moosetracker]

Listen carefully everyone, the BSA does not exclude leaders or scouts due to sexual orientation. They do exclude leaders and scouts for homosexual conduct - however, conduct doesn't get defined in detail. Only by observing this "conduct" does one now become "known" or "avowed" as a homosexual.

 

 

Acc040 - Known or avowed means "KNOWN" or avowed.. No questionable conduct needed. If you got picked up from and event by another adult male, is this conduct worthy of having you removed from your scouting position? It was either that which got someone removed, or the fact some scouter asked who so&so's ride was, and another adult responded it was his other half.. The scouter who asked complained and he was removed.. He was removed because he was found out by a prejudicial scouter. Scouters do not have to DO anything to be removed, all they need is for someone who is prejudice to find out and report them.

 

RememberSciff - I wish the article did not require a subscription to read. Sounded interesting..

 

 

[moosetracker]

Yeah.. I surfed the web for the article, and when found same paper, but they gave me a free pass.. Don't want to put the whole article in as RememberSciff, don't need no piracy charges.. But this paragraph was interesting.

 

 

The Boys Scouts Boston Minuteman Council adopted a nondiscrimination policy 10 years ago that includes sexual orientation, said Sean Martin, a council spokesman. Mr. Martin said he didn't know of any gay or lesbian leaders or scout members in the council.

 

Mr. Martin said the BSA has long been aware of Boston's policy and there have been no repercussions. Mr. Smith, the BSA spokesman, said he had no information about the Boston group's practice.

 

 

Everyone here thought Minuteman Council has had their hands slapped already..

 

I wonder if Minuteman, Northern Star, and the Philidelphia Council stood together, would national really seek to loose 3 councils?

 

I think this story will be in the news for quiet some time, maybe all through Fall recruitment, where parents can look at this conflict and regardless of which side they personally are on, will just not want their 1st grader signing up into the middle of such a civil war. I can see membership and FOS with other donations are going to be small this year..

[skeptic]

Moose;

 

Or.............You could see contributions again increase due to the silent majority who usually do not weigh in. That is what happened the first time this really hit; people came out of the woodwork to donate "directly"; and many dropped United Way when they withdrew support in some areas.

 

It is not nearly as accepted as some think. Poll respondents are almost always NOT particularly representative of the larger population, no matter what some will suggest. I know I seldom ever respond to the annoying polls that arrive through the telephone, or occasionally the mail.

 

JMO of course.

[moosetracker]

Still if I was a very conservative parent and knew little about the scouts, but was looking for a nice activity for my first grader. Regardless of National siding with my belief, there is also all these news articles of people standing up to them and purposely not following their rules.. I do not think I would be interested in taking little Johnny into a program full of turmoil and unrest.. Best to put him in little league..

 

Last time there was disappointment, and I am sure some left the organization. But there was not so much direct opposition within the organization.. Or at least the internet wasn't as efficient as now, where the turmoil played out in the media, on blogs, in forums and in Remarks after an article..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[RememberSchiff]

Well a very small step of support, I ordered my Northern Star Council patch. I will sew it on when it arrives.

 

My $1.60 + $0.45 postage