BSA post LDS

[Basementdweller]

Everyone loves the hypothetical situations....

 

The BSA lets openly gay adults to join.........There is speculation that the LDS church will immediately end their involvement.......

 

 

So if it happens, How will the BSA look? national numbers would drop by 400K according to a link posted a couple of weeks ago.

 

 

Local perspective, Not much, they don't attend roundtable, council events or summer camp the same week.

 

thoughts????

[Bando]

Perhaps they will use their extant, para-BSA literature, hierarchical structure, program ideas, and scouting culture to officially form the separate organization they essentially already have.

[acco40]

Scouting is "the" youth program of the LDS church. The BSA also has allowed the LDS church to modify the program to suit their needs (i.e. age limits, etc.) Scouts Canada adopted a national program of coeducational Scouting, but allowed organizations that have a religious or traditional history of all-male Scout groups, such as the LDS church to maintain that status. So no female scout leaders in LDS packs or troops. Assuming the BSA would remain treating the LDS units the same, my guess is that membership would remain constant with the LDS units and the BSA would gain about as many folks who endorse the change as they would lose who would not endorse the change. Bottom line, I don't think enrollment would change appreciably either way.

[Trevorum]

I fervantly hope that cooler heads will prevail in the LDS leadership and they won't vote to take their marbles and go home. However, a compromise is a possible outcome. They might *not* formally schism, but could negotiate a deal with National that will allow them to even further enhance theiralready considerable separation within the BSA umbrella. They might completely withdraw from Roundtables, Woodbadge, camporees and other pan-BSA events but still run a parallel Scouting program within BSA. Sort of like Learning for Life but on the other end of the spectrum.

[packsaddle]

More often than not, results fail to reject the null hypothesis. I think ACCO40 has it right.

[shortridge]

If the LDS Church left - and I will bet there is a secret contingency plan in a file cabinet in Irving preparing for the possibility - the impact would vary by council, as the church is stronger in certain areas. But for sure, everyone would lose at least a handful of units. Donations would dry up. Staff would eventually be laid off. Camps would be trimmed. The overall numbers would go down by about 420,000 youth, or about 15 percent.

 

My council would see relatively little impact. In the west, though, I can see some areas being crippled and unable to recover.

 

Acco, what you're suggesting is a local option, which I understand is anathema to the church for some reason. More likely, I would see them taking their boys and starting a similar internal youth group of their own. There would still be some more liberal boys and parents who would continue in Scouting, but without the backing and leadership of the ward and stake.

 

But the Catholic Church would likely depart, too. That impact is difficult to gauge precisely, as not every member of a Catholic CO is Catholic, and not all Catholics belong to Catholic COs. There's also the gradual shift away from papal infallibility to consider. Many contemporary American Catholics routinely disregard church teachings on birth control; would they follow a directive to break ties with the BSA? And something tells me that the church may have some difficulties starting a full-fledged internal youth program of its own to compete ... parents these days may not be all that willing to let their sons go off into the woods with priests.

[00Eagle]

Here in the Northeast it will be less problematic. The LDS have few wards here, and while they may register all of their kids of scout age, they're still relatively small and disorganized. The United Ways that condemn Scouting will probably resume funding.

 

Certain potential COs may consider opening their doors (e.g. Reform Judaism) other long time partners may have less misgivings about continuing their relationships (e.g. Alpha Phi Omega, the AFL-CIO).

 

I think if a CO drops a unit, the DEs have a list of potential COs in their back pocket and can get the unit transferred intact. Most COs are hands off so there's more loyalty to the unit than to the CO.

 

School access will also be easier.

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally I wouldn't trade the LDS in for the gays.

 

 

Our district has an LDS leader who is promoting the idea of LDS Scout units making concerted efforts to recruit non LDS families into LDS Scout units.

 

As a bonus, the LDS church pays for BSA registration fees even for those not members of the church. They may fund additional pack and troop expences, minimizing out of pocket costs for families joining Scouting.

 

It might be quite practical to significantly expand the number of Scouts if this is something LDS units want to do.

 

I'm sure many liberals who hate Scouting for a wide variety of reasons would be delighted if they could get their gay friends into Scouting and get Catholic and LDS units out of Scouting at the same time. This would be a "twofer" I'm sure many would celebrate.

 

For pretty much the opposite reason, I oppose such changes in policy.

[Hal_Crawford]

I suspect there would be considerable impact in our council were the Marriott family and corporation are huge financial supporters. Our service center and one of our summer camps both bear the Marriott name. That said, I think the loss would be greater to the LDS community--it would be hard for them to replace the access to camps and resources and they could never have another Eagle Scout--so I hope they would stay.

 

I doubt that the Catholic churches would act with the same solidarity that some expect from the LDS church. Some would, like he church that threw out the Girl Scouts on a specious connection to Planned Parenthood, but most would continue to charter troops.

 

The day is coming. I guess we'll see when it gets here.

[Eagle92]

It wouldn't be just LDS units and members that left. Other COs would pull out as well. Families opposed to homosexuality would also leave. Trust me on this one. I had a CO decide not to renew their charter prior to the Dale Decision because they expected BSA to lose and, even though they could select their own leaders, they did not want homosexual leaders from other units interacting with their youth.

 

Also I had parents tell me prior to and after Dale that they were glad that BSA won as they didn't want to quit Scouting. Also know of some folks join Scouting because of Dale b/c they DID think BSA allowed homosexual leaders and they didn't want that for their children.

[Bando]

Anecdotes are nice, but are not definitive or indicative one way or the other.

 

Also, you have to acknowledge that when it comes to issues of homosexuality, America in 2012 is a much, much different place than America in 2000-2001, when the Dale case was front page news.

[moosetracker]

I could see the split like Life Long Learning for them..

 

LDS rarely does go to roundtables or camporees. They choose to group all their units together and go to summer camp as a block, and just take the camp over for a week so they aren't with other types of units.. They really don't even want to do training with other types of units.. Then they do have their own different ways of running the program.. If it happened I don't think the LDS or the rest of the units would notice any difference at all..

 

I did want to add on to this reflexion, because it was not stated, before.. I am not for pushing LDS to their own group.. I am just stating, that I can see this as a solution when the day comes (which I am confident it will.) when the homosexual ban it removed and LDS still can not accept the solution of a local option.. This is simply a way to share BSA while the LDS still feels in control of their world.. Who knows the Catholics and others who agree with their policy may join the other group..

 

 

On the other hand, I still prefer local option. This solution kindof has a feel of the North & South in the civil war.. Grant it, we would all be happy.. But, seperations in ideas from unit to unit is more together then total devision..

 

I guess when the day comes we will see what happens.. LDS leaves, LDS splits into their own branch, LDS learns to accept local option.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Nike]

As today's Scouts become tomorrow's CORs and IHs, not to mention SEs and board members, we will probably begin to see changes in the membership requirements: sexual orientation, religious belief, and even gender (or the even more difficult gender identification.)

[Eagle92]

Bando,

 

Yep it's anecdotal. I didn't do any scientific studies on the matter. But it is based upon my discussions and work with folks. That CO I lost as a DE caused all sorts of problems for me as not only did I lose a pack, but also lost a potential troop as well. I and the pack leaders went scrambling to find another CO. And it hurt not only in membership, but also FOS. One of the district's biggest donors was in that unit.

 

SP,

 

Don't know how adamant LDS and other COs are on the topic of local option, but from my expereince some are VERY adamant in that they do not want it. Even if they can pick their own leaders, they do not want to interact with other units that do allow homosexuals as leaders. So I don't see how a separate program in the BSA will help.

 

But then again it may over time. I know of several law enforcement Explorer posts switch COs from the police or sheriff's department to the police protective society or whatever you call it. They did that so that they could be Venturing Crews and not have to accept homosexuals as leaders. To my knowledge, they do not exist as crews today and may be Explorer posts now.

 

 

[Peregrinator]

Since the Catholic Church has not disaffiliated with the GSUSA or CampFire (both "inclusive") I don't imagine that as a whole it will stop affiliating with the BSA if the latter should change its policy with respect to homosexuals. Some, but not all, parishes will stop chartering packs and troops, and some, maybe even many, parents will pull their boys out.