BSA Should Ban Fat People

[USAFgunner]

Pretty sure your original post was about fat people in the scouts not about atheists or gays in the scouts. Regardless, you pretty much missed the point of my reply. Sure there are people that are overweight because they have bad diets or don't exercise nearly enough but there are those that have a reason for being overweight. The only reason I brought military service into it was to build up to the reason I am overweight. In another 6-8 months I will be back in my original form but you my friend will still be a bitter, ignorant individual who feels the need to attack people because they don't align themselves with your beliefs. Maybe instead of pushing for the scouts to conform to your views you should use all of the hostility and angst you have built up to do something positive like start your own organization where you can dictate what goes on in your club. I support the scouts decision to continue denying membership to people who are openly gay. That doesn't mean that I dislike all gay and lesbian people, it means I don't share their values. The scouts is a private organization which has the right to set expectations to membership and what behaviors bar entrance into the organization. I don't know you but with the attitude you have I don't believe you are suited to be anywhere around scouts. They have counselors available that are able to help you cope with your feelings of inadequacy and anger. I wish you the best!

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Eagle732! I am reviewing the merit badges to become a merit badge counselor for the trapper trails counsel. I believe the scouts is one place I can really pass on the knowledge I have gained in the military and make a difference in the training these boys receive. I believe the military's core values are closely aligned to the Boy Scouts core values. I agree that the scouts isn't a paramilitary organization. I understand that not everyone aspires to be in the military and it isn't my job to push them in that direction. Many of the skills I have learned in my career are skills that boy scouts require to rank up. The one area I do feel strongly about is respect to our nations flag. I will require our troop to show proper respect to the colors according to BSA regulations.

[Oak Tree]

there are those that have a reason for being overweight.

 

Everyone who is overweight has a reason for it. And very rarely is that reason because the person has chosen to gain weight. It might be their job, their surroundings, the presence of high fructose corn syrup in seemingly every product in the supermarket, the weather, the ever-increasing automation of everything, the car-based suburban sprawl they live in, the lack of affordable health clubs, the quantity of insulin that their body manufactures in response to glucose, the amount of serotonin or dopamine in their brain chemistry, their balance of leptin and ghrelin in their system, the way their spouse cooks, or the combination of these and 1000 other factors.

[acco40]

Yes, I know this thread was not really about fat folks but ...

 

My father used to think folks with acne we just those with poor hygiene. I know very intelligent folks who thought the reason certain folks got good grades was just because they put forth more effort. My best friend in college, a great athlete, thought that everyone had the same athletic capability - some just put forth more effort. And yes, many think that obese individuals just choose to be fat.

 

Exercise, studying, cleanliness, effort, etc. can help with weight, grades, acne, athletic prowess, etc. not everyone is created equal (regardless of what some documents state). So yes, obese individuals can influence their weight but to trivialize their malady is wrong.

[BSA24]

Wrong.

 

Calories in through the mouth > calorie intake required for weight maintenance = weight gain. It is a simple equation. Sorry that some have a slower metabolism, but eating more calories than required to maintain weight is a choice, not a victimization.

[BSA24]

> you my friend will still be a bitter, ignorant individual who feels the need to attack people because they don't align themselves with your beliefs.

 

Thank you for your example of the behavior you describe.(This message has been edited by BSA24)

[BadenP]

BSA24

 

Aw come on now you know you were just asking for it with all your nasty comments, so just suck it up and take it like a man. LOL

[WasE61]

"I would like to propose that BSA ban fat people. Fat people are clearly not doing their best. They are eating more food than is their share. They are spending the rest of our money on their health problems. They are getting diabetes and heart disease and making our insurance rates go up. Fat people are immoral."

 

Ah, you must be an O-blame-o Care fan!

[NJCubScouter]

USAFgunner, the fact is that BSA24 started this thread not to make a point about overweight/obese people (of which I am in the second category, moving toward the first with about 15 pounds to go), but to make a point about the policy towards gay leaders. Look at his second post in this thread. It is understandable that his point got lost on many people. This often happens when people try to be sarcastic or satirical in Internet forums. As I like to say, on the Internet, nobody can see you smile.

 

I agree with BSA24 on the subject of gay leaders (I support local option), but this thread (and the other one where he said the BSA should ban smokers) was probably not the best way to make the point. Each to his own methods, I guess.

 

I also want to say, thank you for your service to our country, and it is regrettable that you have had to pay the price that you paid for doing so.

 

Most of the rest of us who are, ahem, "fat", don't have as good an excuse. I still haven't figured out, though, why the BSA says that (at least weight-wise) I am ok to go on any high adventure trip, but the BMI chart says I am "obese".

 

 

[Papadaddy]

The ignorance shown here toward obesity is astounding. Would you tell someone with severe depression to "just snap out of it". Would you tell an alcoholic to "just quit buying the stuff". Would you tell a kid with severe ADHD/ODD/ADD, or whatever the diagnosis du jour is to just "knock it off"? I have often said, if I could quit food "cold turkey", I think I could do that. But then I would die. I am currently eating less than 1500 calories a day...and not losing weight. During a bout with diverticulitis (which concluded with surgery), I lost 70 lbs due to not eating anything but clear liquids for 3 months. The Dr responded by hospitalizing me for 7 days for "TPN"...total parenteral nutrition (an IV bag). He said my brain would be damaged without it. So no, there is no "simple answer" to this complex disease, which has physical, genetic, mental and emotional components.

[Basementdweller]

Oh I take what BSA24 says with a grain of salt

 

He hates fat people, people who smoke, the Order of the Arrow, New People at roundtable, the BSA for not letting gay folk in, People who don't wear their uniform right, People who where OA strips, on and on and on.....

 

 

I like to know who is posting and how they have stood on the issue previously.

 

 

 

[Peregrinator]

Most of the rest of us who are, ahem, "fat", don't have as good an excuse. I still haven't figured out, though, why the BSA says that (at least weight-wise) I am ok to go on any high adventure trip, but the BMI chart says I am "obese"

 

Because the BMI chart is bull. I think there is a considerable number of Olympic athletes (and not just the powerlifters, LOL) who would be considered "obese" according to the BMI chart. Heck, I am within a few pounds of "obese" myself according to the BMI chart, and while I will grant that I am overweight (I have a bit of a middle-aged gut), there is no way that I am "obese".

[BSA24]

Your body fat % is a better measure of your overall health in terms of obesity. For the average person, BMI and body fat track pretty tightly with each other.

 

I'm fairly thin, and my body fat is around 16% and BMI is a 25.

 

If you are poopooing BMI as an accurate measure of health, then hold a body fat measuring device in your hands (you can get one for about $40) in the morning and find out what your body content is. There's no living in denial when you hold one of those and you are over 20% body fat or higher.

 

My neighbor was ranting about his BMI being BS because he has muscles. 30% body fat. There's no excuse or rationalization to make that go away. Only exercise and smaller portions at meal time can cure it.

 

I still laugh every time I see another angry rant on this thread. I laugh really, really hard. People arguing that being gay is a choice but being fat can't be helped is huh-larious. Arguing that atheists taking the scout oath would be breaking it while denying you are responsible for your weight and smoking and instead of fixing it asking others to not point it out or criticize it is just unbelievable hypocrisy.

 

Instead, maybe it is better to accept we are all flawed or perhaps disappointing to one another in one way or another, and simply be more accepting and less judgmental of the gays and atheists. You know... judge not, lest you be judged yourselves and all that.

(This message has been edited by bsa24)

[acco40]

BSA24, I don't think anyone is arguing that being fat can't be helped.

 

However, what many believe, including myself, is that the cause of obesity is more complex than some believe. For example, science has shown that intestinal bacteria in obese humans differ from those in lean individuals and it is postulated that these bacteria are involved in how body weight is regulated and in how the food we eat is absorbed. For example, if you have inefficient bacteria that do not do a good a job of breaking down the food that you eat, more simply passes through and less is absorbed. For someone with more efficient bacteria, eating the same exact amount of food would cause a higher level of nutrient absorption.

 

Also, there have been studies that show that hunger/satiety sensing is not the same in all individuals.

 

Of course, many of us gain weight because we eat in front of the television, lead sedentary lifestyles, eat the wrong types of food, etc. So yeah, we can all regulate our weight but sometimes it is harder to do that for some than others.

 

It reminds me of my brother, a very talented musician. He would get irritated when he would play some music and someone would remark that they wished they were "good at music" like he was. He was irritated because in his eyes, he has worked very hard to maintain the level of proficiency that he has - it didn't just happen. When he told me this, I just chuckled, reminding him of the comments he has made to me many times - I'm just not good at math and science like you are.

 

We all seem to believe what we want to believe to make us feel better about ourselves sometimes - facts be damned.

[Gunny2862]

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/health/fat_chance_xvtJFYgRW25bQ3OfY52KgJ

 

Need to make a few points here: He started as a Personal trainer AND a Chef , he KNOWS how his body and food work.

He did this intentionally, he was only planning on gaining 100 lbs.

 

He still,"began to think hed never drop the weight."

 

"I had a complete [mental] breakdown at 264 pounds, says James, who hopped on a plane to Tokyo, locked himself in a hotel room, closed the drapes and had McDonalds delivered.

Soon, he eschewed food completely, but still packed on 5 more pounds.""

 

"Empathy is my favorite word. I even have it tattooed on the inside of my wrist, he says flipping his arm over to reveal the ink."

 

 

 

 

[BSA24]

The purpose of this thread was to get some folks to look in the mirror. You want sympathy and understanding. So to gay people. You say they are aberrant, but you want others to look at your flaws and say they are normal and complex.

 

It's a two way street. Expecting love and understanding when you don't give it, as BadenP pointed out to me above, is ridiculous.

 

I ask that all scouters who think they are absolutely sure they know everything they need to about what it is like to be a homosexual in our society to consider what it felt like to be singled out for having a nice waistline. You were not rejected from an organization. You were not threatened. You only had a jerk in a forum (me) suggest you be banned from BSA.

 

It hurt your feelings. It made you angry. Some of you ranted. One guy even registered and went on a tirade about it.

 

If only there were so much passion for empathy toward people who are different than us instead of only ourselves and our own condition, yes?

 

It was an experience like this I had with a coworker which opened my eyes to the bigotry I used to feel and the actions I take. Years ago I was campaigning for gays to be denied marriage. Today, I feel differently, because like everyone else, I am in many, many ways a seriously flawed failure of a man, but I want compassion and understanding.

 

I must be willing to be that person I wish to have around me or I do not deserve it.