Learning For Life is inclusive, when will BSA mention that?

[ForTheBoys]

Has anyone seen any mention of the Learning For Life program in any of the BSA articles covering the policy on homosexuals? It seems to me that National has missed an opportunity to say that BSA does have a program that is all inclusive. I'm not nearly as familiar with that program as I am with the traditional programs, and I'm guessing the general public knows even less.

 

What do you think, is the Learning For Life a good program for the BSA? Is it just a farce to appease the critics or is it a viable option for those who disagree with the policy for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts?

[moosetracker]

I don't know how true it is, or even who I heard it from.. But, I did hear the Explorer posts were moved to learning for life to get them away from the whole quagmire of the discriminatory policies.

 

Because they are out of the BSA framework, we now see little of them to know how well they are doing, if BSA is even spending anytime promoting and improving their program, if they are it is with a whole different set of council volunteers.. Since they separated, we have had two boys move to Explorer programs, both really seemed to enjoy the program they got.

 

[shortridge]

As I understand it, BSA was forced to make Learning for Life inclusive because so many of its units are connected with public institutions, such as fire companies, police departments, EMS agencies, etc., and local governments' nondiscrimination laws would have kicked out traditional Scouting units. So it's not exactly a shiny thing that National wants to advertise.

 

Its participant numbers are also fairly small - 777,243 compared to 2,723,869 in the traditional membership. And I do have to wonder how LFL counts "participation." If that includes a youth who attends a single career development program and never comes back, that's not exactly burning up the wires.

[NJCubScouter]

Is it just a farce to appease the critics or is it a viable option for those who disagree with the policy for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts?

 

I don't think it's either one. It's a real program, or a collection of real programs, depending on whether you are just talking about the school-based "Learning for Life" program (which, I recall reading somewhere, is actually not a "membership" program), or also about the "Explorer" program which is organizationally under the LFL banner. (I also saw a reference somewhere to a "Lions" program (kindergarten-age) that was under the heading of LFL, while other "Lions" programs are loosely affiliated with Cub Scout packs.) And I don't know that it "appeases" anybody. At the same time, it is not an "option" to the Boy Scout/Cub Scout programs, because it is really a different kind of program, or programs. The only area that I have heard of where there may be some "option" is between Exploring and Venturing, where there is a gray area between whether something is a "hobby" (for which a Venture crew would be formed) or a "career field" (for which an Explorer post would be formed.) There were a few examples discussed in this forum some years back, where there were Venture crews and Explorer posts covering basically the same field, but I forget what they were.

[Abel Magwitch]

LFL = lol.

 

It is one of the BSA's sacred cows. A well hidden program to boost council numbers so pros can make their membership criticals.

 

You won't even see the words Boy Scouts in the literature or on the LFL/Exploring website.

 

Just try to get information from your council on how many LFL groups there are in the council and where they are located. Try to find out from your council how many members are registered within the groups. Then if you are lucky enough to get some information, visit some of your public schools where the program supposedly exists and ask the principals if they ever heard of the program. Then if you really get ambitious, ask some students if they ever heard of the program.

 

Yep, the good ole non-decriminatory LFL program.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[moosetracker]

Well, as I said, I know they are around here as two of our boys went into it. I think different ones to. I believe one was more for police the other is medical of some sort.. Not sure though one was over 5 years back and I know he was going into college for law-enforcement, so with him I assume.. The other one is more recent, and I met some of the people in his new group and asked if they might be avaliable to be called if we need someone to do our IOLS first aide skills.

[NJCubScouter]

Well, Abel, maybe I was speaking a bit loosely. I don't actually know enough the school-based LFL program to say much about it. I guess I was really talking more about the Exploring program, which is under the LFL umbrella. There are Explorer posts, they do actual activities, I have seen them.

[blw2]

Funny, just this morning I got to thinking about Aviation explorers, wondering if there was a "group" nearby... i don't know what they call themselves.....

 

Guess what, I didn't go so far as to make a call, but I couldn't find much about it in approx 5 minutes with my friend, Google.

[Horizon]

The Explorer Cops and Firefighters were both there for Scout Night at the MLS Galaxy game I went to a few weeks ago.

[NJCubScouter]

blw2, we have one of those nearby, they call themselves "Aviation Exploring Post 107." Their adviser and some of the members ran an Aviation Merit Badge session at a regional airport a few years ago, it may be an annual thing but I'm not sure, since I only went one time with my son and 4 or 5 other Scouts from our troop. I am usually not big on merit badge classes (and this one had about 100 Scouts present) but I can tell you that the Scouts actually did all the requirements (including some "prereq" work that they had to do beforehand) - actually one of the Scouts from our troop did NOT earn the badge, because he did not do all the work, which I take as a sign that the counselor took his job seriously. The adviser/counselor did a lot of work setting up this program, with some interesting speakers including the local head of the FAA, an air traffic controller and several pilots including a Coast Guard officer in uniform. Well, I probably found the FAA person more interesting than the kids did. And in between sitting on the cold hard hangar floor listening to people talk, we toured different hangars and other parts of the airport. Unfortunately it was just about the foggiest day I have ever seen, so there was no flying going on and the "Young Eagle" flights which were scheduled that day (for which I had signed up my son, but was not required for the MB) were canceled. But it was a good program, and that's about all I know about our local Aviation Exploring (shouldn't it be "Explorer"?) post.

 

Interestingly, to circle back to the general vicinity of what this thread is about, I suppose aviation is one of those areas where you could probably choose between having a Venture crew and an Explorer post, since aviation is both a hobby and a vocation. And the airport that sponsors the post I mention above is a privately owned airport, so I suppose they could have a crew if they wanted to, but they have a post.

[Eagle92]

Learning for Life started out from the old "in school Scouting programs." It's intent it to bring some of Scouting's values into secular format for use by schools and other organizations, i.e. day cares, organizations with both girls and boys, etc. I admit I do not know about the current literature, but when I started 2 groups and got their materials, it is a good program.

 

Now here's the deal with Exploring and LFL, and Emb please correct me if I am wrong.

 

National was already looking to revamp the Explorer Program in the 1996/7 time frame. They were looking to bring back some of the older awards from before Exploring became career oriented int he late 1960s early 1970s. The a lawsuit against a CO, the Chicago PD if memory serves, forced Venturing to come out before it was ready and switch Exploring to LFL in 1998.

 

More later

 

[NJCubScouter]

...forced Venturing to come out...

 

Interesting choice of words there, Eagle92.

[Abel Magwitch]

http://www.learningforlife.org/

 

My earlier post was focused on the LFL program, not the exploring program. Yes my council has a few (and I mean a few) explorer programs. But I was referring to the much bigger group which has high membership numbers called learning for life.

 

And I agree with Eagle's comment with this exception - LFL could be a good program but unfortunately it is too easy to abuse in order to inflate membership numbers.

 

So here we have a program which is part of the BSA - the same BSA that discriminates based on their definitions of morality and religion, and yet the BSA conveniently hides its name when it advertises its LFL program. I find this to be very hypocritical on the part of the BSA considering that it would even have such a program in the first place. LFL is simply a method of membership management IMHO.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

[Eagle92]

In May of 1998 was when I first heard about Venturing and bringing back the old awards. The national dir. of Venturing ticked off about 40+ new DEs when he made the comment that "The Silver Award will replace Eagle Scout as the BSA's highest award."

 

Sad thing was, he never did mention Sea Scouts, and I bet he didn't know they exist like many pros. Luckily his replacement, Holmes, did.

 

When all the information on Venturing became available at the National Leadership Training Conference in Aug. 1998, the material looked hastily put together, and if memory serves, my coworker, who was giving a presentation on the program, didn't get a copy of her presentation until she got there. Also info that was given out had a different color scheme for Venturing beside the green and yellow. Only uniform items available were the white Venturing patch for the shoulder and green strips to replace the Exploring BSA ones.. Most stuff didn't become available until December 1998, with shorts coming in August 1999 and pants in August 2000.

 

One thing that kinda ticks me off today is that we were told that current Explorer leaders would be grandfathered as trained in Venturing. Which hasn't happened.

[BDPT00]

"Which hasn't happened." ??

Sounds like you're still waiting.

I've never understood what that white Venturing patch is for. What's its purpose? And along those same lines, why wear shoulder loops?

BDPT00