BSA inclusiveness: how long coming?

[CalicoPenn]

How long will it take? Until people who say things like "Let us hope "openly gay" doesn't involve anything icky though" are looked upon with pity.

 

As for "liberal Christianity"? Jesus Christ was a Liberal - if you're Christianity isn't liberal, then you aren't doing it right by the guy who it's named after.

[shortridge]

I apologize if I have insulted anyone's faith; that was certainly not my intent. But it is just as insulting to my beliefs and values when people on your side call gays and lesbians "not normal, "troubled" or "immoral."

 

You have a right to practice your faith, as do we all. But your faith is not everyone's faith. Your God is not my God. Yet you feel compelled to force every Scout and Scouter obey your God on this issue. My God, who tells me that banning people based upon who they love is not right, gets no voice, simply because the numbers are in your favor. That is a might-makes-right situation.

 

That is the part of this debate that supporters of the ban simply fail to understand. If my faith compels me to accept homosexuality as normal and yours does not, why does yours win out?

 

Barry, if this was really about freedom and choice, then you would not be so threatened by the local option.

 

Your arguments about why your God orders you to believe X carry no weight with me. I'm asking for an argument in support of the ban that shows why gays are immoral based on universal principles, not specific religious doctrine. Not a single person here can defend the ban without resorting to the Bible. In my beliefs, that book is just a book. It was written by men who are infallible. It is a great book, to be sure, one of many. But I do not take it as the word of God, as you do.

 

So again, please, explain the reason for the ban in a way that makes sense to me and the other non-Christians in Scouting.

 

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Addendum: I find it ironic that I am lectured to show respect for others' positions and faiths, yet am then told to be quiet, quit the organization or change my faith, simply because I do not believe what you believe.

(This message has been edited by Shortridge)

[Eagledad]

>>I apologize if I have insulted anyone's faith; that was certainly not my intent. But it is just as insulting to my beliefs and values when people on your side call gays and lesbians "not normal, "troubled" or "immoral.">Yet you feel compelled to force every Scout and Scouter obey your God on this issue.>If my faith compels me to accept homosexuality as normal and yours does not, why does yours win out?>Your arguments about why your God orders you to believe X carry no weight with me.

[shortridge]

I think that pretty much says it all. You support calling teenagers troubled and immoral based upon who they have feelings for. You demand respect for your beliefs, but disregard mine. You refuse to debate except on your terms, where the Bible is the ultimate authority. You cannot muster up a single point in favor of the ban to convince those who are not Christian.

 

Point made, sir.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Shortridge,

 

 

The bottom line is --- we disagree.

 

You are entitled to your views and I'm entitled to mine.

 

A corollary of that is that you are entitled to your views and BSA is entitled to its views and policies.

 

The reason politics is often contentious is not disagreements of "the fact and the figures" or even self interest or money. The main reason that politics is contentious is that it involves disagreements over values.

 

Cultures make value choices and competing cultures often disagree over which values should rule.

 

On the issue of BSA policies, it is up to BSA to decide what their policies will be with regard to homosexuals. You don't like it, but that's the bottom line.

[NJCubScouter]

I always find it amusing when people who are defending the BSA's "membership policies" refer to the BSA as "them." It's like it's that organization way over there, with "their" policies. I like to think of the BSA as more of an "us." My family has been involved with the BSA for 74 years and it has had a strong effect on our family, and I like to think that we have had our own little positive impact on the BSA as well, at the local and sometimes the council/district level. It's not a "them" to me. And I suspect that many of those who refer to BSA as "them" or "their" when discussing these particular issues, think of the BSA more in terms of "us" and "our" when NOT discussing those issues.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

"How long will it take? Until people who say things like "Let us hope "openly gay" doesn't involve anything icky though" are looked upon with pity."

 

Ah yes; the pity behind this statement is palpable.

[packsaddle]

Calico, the thing is, the New Testament didn't exist for Jesus. It wasn't until a few hundred years later that we had that basis for true Christianity. Jesus today would only be considered a liberal Christian if he embraced part of the New Testament and rejected other parts. Can you explain how Jesus would reject any part of the New Testament?

[Sentinel947]

I support Homosexuals in the BSA simply because I believe my faith governs my actions, and that is all.

 

I respect those who are further to the right of me on the spectrum who hold to their religious beliefs and support the ban. I hold those on the left who do not support the ban in just as high regard.

 

It has been hard for me personally to endure the constant coverage of this, the hateful comments, and the probing remarks of people who know me, and know of my strong connection to the BSA.

 

I think and hope eventually like everything else, this issue will be settled in the marketplace of ideas. Not by heavy handed government intrusion.

 

I think this debate has gotten a little too heated for many of the members involved, and we should perhaps let these threads die down.

 

There has been plenty of eloquent statements, and clever arguments, but at the end of the day, few people here are going to change their opinions, and this thread is starting to mirror our Presidential race.

 

Just my two cents on the subject.

 

God bless the BSA.