BSA inclusiveness: how long coming?

[Trevorum]

Having presented the official BSA "inclusiveness" module at Wood Badge training, I do know that inclusiveness and membership diversity is explicitly valued in our organization. And yet, here we are still actively debating the membership policy that excludes homosexuals.

 

As I have said before, change is coming. I have no doubt whatsoever that inevitably, BSA will eventually change this policy. There appears to be much support on these forums for this belief. So, my question is, if you also see this change coming towards us, how long do YOU think it will take for BSA to reverse the current policy?

 

My guess is within 6 years, by 2018.

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

My guess is more than 15 years.

[Lisabob]

I'll split the difference and call it 12.

 

Honestly, Trev, I don't know if I could present the diversity segment in the WB curriculum, because I am not convinced that the BSA actually means it, based on current actions.

[Beavah]

Yah, yeh gotta believe that da diversity stuff is at least partly just lip service to appease people who look for that sort of stuff, eh? Honestly, isn't that da case in most institutions?

 

I go with Merlyn, eh? 15 years or more, if it happens at all. We'll see co-ed first, and quite possibly a relaxin' on da atheist issue before this step. Da logic and da market for co-ed is much more sound.

 

In all likelihood, between the general decay in membership because of weakening program and changes in' youth interests, da folks who won't join because of da policy, and the folks who leave when da policy changes, at that point da BSA will be finished as a meaningful organization. Just because the policy changes doesn't mean all those complainers are suddenly goin' to come volunteer or send their kids, and odds are they have small families.

 

Beavah

 

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

The diversity we really need, and the diversity I suppose was discussed, is finding ways to attract the mushrooming populations of Latinos, Asians and African Americans.

 

Personally I will be putting a major part of the effort in my Cub Pack recruiting this fall targeting Latino families, who are especially numerous in my district and area.

 

By comparison, the homosexual and atheist issues are trivial with respect to membership and recruiting in my opinion and experience.

[Cito]

Its really hard to guess, it depends so much on where you are. Around here it's a big issue with people, in many places it's not worth discussing.

 

I'd say another half a generation, 15 years or so.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Inclusiveness? Membership diversity? What's diverse about gays?

 

Aren't we told that it's naughty to think of gays as substantively different and especially naughty to treat them in any way that suggests they are substantively different. But if they're not substantively different, why is including them considered "membership diversity?"

 

This is confusing... but not worrisome. Gays are fewer than 5% of the population and it seems unlikely that the proportion of them that wants to be in scouting is much greater than the proportion of the rest of the population. It'd be unsurprising to learn that a good proportion of those that want to be involved with scouting are already. Let us hope "openly gay" doesn't involve anything icky though. Eventually America's public imagination might realize that there just aren't that many gays and they're really not very interesting anyway. Whatever will we talk about then?

 

As far as timeline goes... Merlyn's timeline sounds reasonable... but really... who knows? Not I. And Da'Beav's predictions regarding coed and atheism sound sound - and unobjectionable if they allow chartered orgs to make the call as to whether or not they want their membership to be diverse, gay verse, or free verse... but not perverse. Maybe that could stave off the demise of BSA which Da'Beav plausibly predicts.

 

Do we suppose manhood will every go Coed?

 

[SeattlePioneer]

How inspiring! Speculating about "The Triumph of Liberalism" over Boy Scouts!

 

 

Does that really give people a cheap thrill?

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

If chartered orgs maintain authority over these matters for their own troops (as they should)- it ain't no triumph for liberalism except in circles where it's already triumphant.

[fred8033]

I'm betting within five years. It will be as with many things ... fought and protested and the end change will be much ado about nothing.

 

As much as we complain about BSA's backroom old boy's national leadership, that same leadership style could make this an easy change.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[JMHawkins]

I think the 15 year prediction is about right, because by then the Boomer generation will have exited most leadership positions in society. Having public debates about morality is a very Boomer thing to do. The younger generations aren't as interested.

 

I also expect by then Society will have significantly bigger problems to worry about. I suspect the overriding moral imperative will be to get along with your neighbor and not be a perpetual PITA. We won't be celebrating "diversity", we'll be celebrating teamwork. I think we will return to a much stronger division between private and public life. There will be higher standards for public behavior, but they'll come with an expectation that a person's explicitly public behavior is what they'll be judged on.

 

What that means for gays or the BSA? Nothing that will matter anywhere near as much as how either reacts to other more important problems between now and then. I suspect banning little red wagons will cost BSA more members than any decision the outfit might make on gays will.

[Eamonn]

To be honest, I really have no idea.

I'm thinking that maybe I'm the only person on the planet who thought that change was near and might happen this year.

The BSA is between a rock and a hard place.

With so many members belonging to groups chartered by religious organizations who disapprove of homosexuality and these groups having strong representation on the National Council any sort of change that upsets these groups is a very big risk. Even allowing the local option, might not be acceptable to them.

I don't know hardly anything about the teachings of the LDS Church, but have been led to believe that the LDS Church views homosexuality as a very big sin.

As a Roman Catholic, I'm thinking any change on how the church views homosexuals is something that would need to come from Rome and the Pope.

Lord knows that my church has had a lot of problems with child abuse and while I know that abuse is not about sex, my thinking is that the Church isn't going to want to expose it=self to anything that might rekindle the PR nightmare. So will distance itself from anything that might seem or have the appearance of placing youth at risk.

Along with the Catholics and the Mormons, there are other organizations that are not in favor of change.

Of course on the other side of the coin there are organizations that feel the BSA is wrong and have walked or will walk away. - I'm not sure how many members these other groups have? But my feeling is that they don't carry the weight that the other ones do.

 

While I have been around a little bit and seen Scouts in action in a good number of other countries. I never took the time to look at or understand how things are set up.

Of course, having been a Scout Leader in the UK, I do know how things were over there at that time (28 years ago!).

While the Scout Association did have close ties with a lot of religious organizations, there never was the same ties or Chartered Partners, like we have here in the USA.

Adult leaders received warrants from the Scout Association with the Association having the power to grant, revoke or not grant the warrant. - A lot like how I think the Girl Scout here in the USA are set up.

Maybe one day the BSA will look at how things are done? And make changes.

But my feeling is that the fear of losing so many members and harming the relationships that are in place, means that this is not going to happen any time soon, if ever.

 

I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what sort of pressure might force the BSA to want to change or be forced to change? I'm 56 years old and I don't think it will change in my life time and I'm planning on being around for a while!

Eamonn.

[packsaddle]

I'm with Eamonn. Heh, heh, Trevorum, are you trying to join the Mayas and their 'ilk' now, making predictions based on, well....nevermind? When I read predictions like this I think back on all the predictions by other smart people who turned out to be completely wrong. I'm willing to admit I think the change will come. But for all I know it could come with the return of the glaciers (you know, when that mythical warm place freezes over).

[vol_scouter]

My estimate is that some sort of local rule will occur in 5-6 years.

[Sentinel947]

I have a very strong supporter of allowing homosexuals into the BSA. However, probably 90% of the ones who want to be in the BSA, already are. Not a real statistic, just my estimation. While an issue, We've allowed the Media to explode it out of proportion. When the AT&T guy takes over, I think things will start to move in the direction of inclusion.

 

To ensure it's Future, the BSA needs to get stronger in the inner cities, and with African Americans, Hispanics, and Asians. In my Eagle Scout class, the overwhelming number of Boys were white and from the suburbs surrounding Cincinnati. (I'm in Dan Beard Council). Cincinnati has a diverse population that is not be reflected in it's Troop Memberships or Eagle Scouts.

 

I don't support allowing Atheists into the BSA at any Point. When they start allowing Priests to head American Atheist Society, we can talk.

 

As for Girls? Why bring them into the BSA? The Girl Scouts is a fine program, and for Girls who want more Outdoorsy stuff, We have Venturing specifically for that purpose.

 

That being said, If the BSA brings in Athiests, Homosexuals, and Girls, I will still continue in such an organization, because development of Youth is important, regardless of who they are or what they believe in terms of creed.... or lack of.