McCarthy Lives?

[packsaddle]

I applaud John McCain's recent comments in the Senate. I wish they hadn't been necessary:

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2012/07/18/mccain-says-five-gop-house-members-have-launched-unfounded-and-unwarranted-attack-on-an-honorable-citizen-a-dedicated-american-and-a-loyal-p

 

"Ultimately, what is at stake in this matter is larger even than the reputation of one person. This is about who we are as a nation, and who we aspire to be. What makes America exceptional among the countries of the world is that we are bound together as citizens not by blood or class, not by sect or ethnicity, but by a set of enduring, universal, and equal rights that are the foundation of our constitution, our laws, our citizenry, and our identity. When anyone, not least a member of Congress, launches specious and degrading attacks against fellow Americans on the basis of nothing more than fear of who they are and ignorance of what they stand for, it defames the spirit of our nation, and we all grow poorer because of it."

 

Nice to have you back, John.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[moosetracker]

Yeah that is interesting retoric.. But, from the title I thought you were going to bring up the item from Republican Allen West comments that the majority of Democrates in Congress are members of the Communist party..

 

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/apr/11/allen-west/allen-west-says-about-80-house-democrats-are-membe/

 

Labeling anyone who disagrees with you a Communist, kind of goes more to the McCarthy era..

 

[packsaddle]

That's why I put a question mark in the subject title, I'm not sure the concept applies but there's just something about this that reminds me of the McCarthy days, I just can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe its the slimy way the lie is perpetrated...I'm just not sure.

 

As far as that 'Communist' label...I sometimes accuse people I AGREE with of that, lol. Simple pleasures....(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[scoutingagain]

I saw the article and had similar thought. Glad McCain found his backbone again. Hope he keeps it. We need more like him in government. If he hadn't missplaced it in 2008 I might of voted for him.

 

 

 

SA

 

 

[moosetracker]

Well, Allen West was not humorously razzing a friend.. Basically it was done in a mcCarthy style threat style. Same with all this retoric of Obama where if he is not born in America, then he is anti-American... As well as him being Muslim (which who cares if he was.).. And also part of the Muslim mole opperations..

 

 

I'll got condemned for saying it in a post yesterday.. But I will say it again today about this topic.. Radical Conservatives!!! Radical Republicans!! Take your pick.

[Stosh]

The American Dream is based on the pride of the individual being able to create himself/herself into what was formerly referred to as a "self-made man". (Yeah, I know it's not PC, but you get the idea.)

 

There is no such Dream in a socialist country. The only opportunity one has is determined by the powers that be and not on the inspiration, ingenuity, and determination of the individual.

 

No "self-made man" ever considered getting on welfare as an option. Being on the dole used to be an embarrassment, not a badge of honor as it is today.

 

Stosh

[NJCubScouter]

Pack, you are not the first to compare the attack on Huma Abedin to McCarthyism. See http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505267_162-57475483/michelle-bachmann-refuses-to-back-down-on-claims-about-huma-abedin/, in which Representative Keith Ellison (a member of Congress from Minnesota, who for whatever it's worth happens to be a Muslim, the first one in Congress) makes the same comparison.

 

So is it a reasonable comparison? Let's see:

 

Joseph McCarthy, 1950: I have here in my hand a list of 57 members of the Communist Party in the State Department. (Very close paraphrase; sometimes the number was 205, or something else, and he never was able to produce a list. Not that the Soviets didn't have spies in our government, and not that we didn't have spies in theirs.)

 

Michelle Bachmann, 2012: I have here in my hand a list of one Muslim Brotherhood spy in the State Department. (Very loose paraphrase, but it's basically what she meant.)

 

Sounds like a reasonable comparison to me, especially when you consider that Bachmann (and the other four Congresspersons) also said that there "may" be other Muslim Brotherhood spies in the government.

 

For anyone who doesn't know who she is, Huma Abedin is an American citizen (born here, I believe) of Pakistani descent, who identifies herself as a Muslim and works for the State Department as the personal assistant to Hillary Clinton. Here is a photo of her doing her job, although at the time Clinton was still a senator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hillary_Clinton_and_Huma_Abedin.jpg . When former Congressman Anthony Weiner was having his "texting" scandal and the media referred constantly to his pregnant, very unhappy wife, Huma Abedin was (and still is) the wife in question.

 

As for John McCain, I think he's pretty good, when he's not running for president.

[T2Eagle]

Stosh,

 

Have you ever actually known anyone who was receiving welfare and told you they were proud of it? If you did, do you really think they were the norm and not an anecdotal outlier? Ive only known a couple of people who received welfare, in both cases it was because of a catastrophic event in their family, one was abandonment by the husband/father/breadwinner the other was a terrible illness to same. In both cases the adults involved hated it but did it to feed their kids. Ive known more people who collected unemployment, including some very recently, and all equally hated it and were assiduously searching for work.

 

Being poor in this country is extremely unpleasant and stressful, being out of work adds feelings of inadequacy, frustration, and degradation. No one in their right mind is happy or proud of it. And the facts show that the vast majority of people who take advantage of these stop gap measures that weve democratically decided to confer on ourselves do so for only a limited period of time.

 

In my state, a family that sends its child to a premier public university receives the equivalent government benefit of 30 weeks of unemployment. If youre fortunate enough to take advantage of the former societal benefit youre considered noble, if youre unfortunate enough to need to receive the latter benefit youre considered a parasite --- Ive never understood that.

 

[NJCubScouter]

How did this thread move so fast from an attack by Congresspersons on a woman just because she is Muslim, and John McCain apparently getting his, um, courage back, to a discussion of welfare? Just because someone said the word "Communist"? This forum amazes me sometimes.

[moosetracker]

I guess Jblake is saying Obama is unamerican (or a communist) because of the welfare system.. Like he invented it..

 

I agree with T2Eagle, there are a few spongers. I knew of one. But the majority of people need the welfare system, but desperatly want to find a job and get off of it. But, it was put in place especially for the bad times (like now) not for the good times.

 

Personally I prefered the government aid jobs.. We have all these nifty looking stone walls all over NH, I am told were constructed during the depression.. Better use is to get improve the roads and education system, and other things that are needed.. I love our stone walls, but I think it was just a go and do type of job to keep peoples morals up and feel they were not taking a handout. But, that means government putting people to work, not throwing more people out of work..

 

NJCubScouter - at least we are still on political matters.. Come back in a few, maybe we will then be discussing the best beaches to spend your vaction at.. Or the newest teenage pinup idol..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Stosh]

Moose,

 

Just read what I wrote, not what you think I meant.

 

While a few have stated they knew of one or two on welfare because of economic tough times, well I've met more than my share of those who are third generation welfare recipients. They felt they were entitled to it.

 

Yep, we all face economic tough times, been there done that, but I never considered going on the dole. I took a $h|t job before I took a welfare check. I've done the slinging burgers, delivering fliers and newspapers house to house, and spent a fair amount of time at the temp agencies waiting day after day in the lobby until a job opened up.

 

Does that make me more honorable than the next guy? Probably not. By today's standards that would be considered quite stupid to take a $200 a week job when I can make more money on the dole.

 

Every job I got lead to a better one. Only once did a temp agency job not turn into a full time permanent job. But I wasn't home drawing dole, I was out looking for any work I could find.

 

I have relatives making twice as much as me, with half the education, working for the federal government. Another stupid choice on my part since all of them have retired on fat pensions and I'm still working.

 

All I was saying was I still prefer the opportunity to go after the American Dream and that process is getting harder and harder to do in today's society where one is demonized for success or thought the fool for thinking success came from work, not the government.

 

I'm 60+ years old and no income check I have ever received came from the government.

 

I live the American Dream, but I am also becoming a very small part of our society.

 

Stosh

[eisely]

Without endorsing McCarthy's tactics or Bachman's attack, it bears remembering that there was at least one very prominent spy in our State Department working for the Soviet Union during WWII until he left the State Department. His name was Alger Hiss. If I recall correctly he was convicted only of perjury, not espionage per se. Nevertheless, Hiss's allegiance to the Soviet Union has been proven subsequently by materials in the Soviet archives.

[moosetracker]

....demonized for success or thought the fool for thinking success came from work, not the government

 

Is this coming off the new Mitt Romney speech?.. The one where the President did a speech praising people who build business, but also praises other workers as well as the government structure that help ("HELPED") them get there.. Such as teachers who educated them, the transportation infrastructure that helped them either get things, or distribute things they sold, and the internet which was created by the government, improved on by business and other businesses sell things from.

 

Obama, never said that government created ALL business, just that business that a business man creates is not developed in a vacuum..

 

 

[Stosh]

Moose,

 

No, that comment didn't come off the wires of any current political spin. But I have been told for 40 years of struggling that there's an easier way if you look to Uncle Sam for help. I have endured a lot of ridicule over the years for trying to make it on my own, paying my own way, helping others and being "too proud" to take a government handout when it's free for the taking. I am a success in ways that society never defines as such. I haven't made a million in my lifetime, but I was interrogated by the bank a few years back because when I applied for a loan I listed all my assets and debts. The debts totaled $0 and they thought I was hiding something.

 

Having worked in the financial world off and on, I have been chided for not borrowing money to make money and when all is said and done, I own my own home, and with a house completely paid for, I can move into my Golden Years with enough money to retire without Social Security because I have believed all along that it wasn't going to be there when I retired anyway. That may come to pass any way.

 

I've never looked to the government other than the standard government services over the years of which I have always paid taxes on, and yet seen especially in today's society as somewhat of a anomaly and not very often in positive terms.

 

Mitt's comments however, did kind of ring a bell and did make me feel better that there are some out there that are beginning to see what I've seen all along.

 

Stosh

 

 

[perdidochas]

Documents obtained after fall of the Soviet Union confirmed that the KGB was infiltrating. The methods that McCarthy used were reprehensible, but he was right about the problem.