"One Tin Soldier" Appropriate or Not?

[OldGreyEagle]

As camp season draws near, I think of a song that has become almost the anthem of our local Scout Camp. Its "One Tin Soldier" by Coven from the movie Billyjack.

 

The first time I heard the camp sing this song during campwide Vespers I had to leave the Chapel area as I could hardly contain my laughter, obviously none of the "children", either staff or campers had ever seen the movie.

 

So, for a different type of thread, have you ever been "cracked-up" by some tradition being solemnly followed by every one else?

 

And for those who have seen Billyjack (I have it on DVD), is this a Vesper song?

[SR540Beaver]

OGE,

 

Not a tradition but a similar misinterpretation. There was a country song a couple of years back called "Ten Thousand Angels". If I recall correctly it was about a girl on the rebound who was saying she needed 10,000 angels watching over her tonight at a bar to resist temptation. I heard a number of people calling into radio stations requesting the song for loved ones in the hospital. I guess it is the sentiment that counts! They hear the words "angels" and "watching over me" and automatically think it has to do with faith, healing and prayer. I remember asking myself if these people ever bothered to listen to the song at all.

 

Another coutry song used wrong is Merle Haggards song, "If We Make It Thru December". It is a song about a troubled marriage where he is saying that if they make it thru December, everything will be alright, he just wants Christmas to be right for Daddy's girl. It is not a Christmas song, but every country station in the land plays it every Christmas season simply because it mentions December and Christmas. Go figure.

 

BTW, neither of these songs are good for vespers either!!! LOL

[Marty_Doyle]

One doesn't really have to have seen the badly acted, preachy, low-budget/independant, message movie to realize that this is not a Vespers appropriate tune.

The lyrics talk about anger, greed, jealousy, hate, war, massacre and, I guess, disappointment when the treasure is revealed to be "only" a message about "peace on earth". Where are the Scouting values and ideals in there?

Billyjack the movie? Everytime Billy gets angry, he resorts to violence, ultimately murdering the "bad guy", for which he is arrested (and driven away to the song "One Tin Soldier"). Again, not very Scout-like.

Of course, back in the early seventies, I loved it, especially when it compared Hitler to Nixon's cabinet.

But that was probably as much to annoy my Republican father as anything else. I wonder what tortures my Cub Scout son will put me through?

 

[Marty_Doyle]

In our city, at each elementary school, the children recite the Pledge of Allegiance at the start of each school day. And each school has added a couple of sentences at the end of the "official" pledge (which in White Plains includes "under God") about diversity, respect, tolerance, et cetera. We must be PC. Each school's addendum is slightly different. There are five elementary schools, but only three packs, so each Pack has boys from every school. So, of course, at every Pack meeting (and probably every den meeting), there is this confusion at the end of the Pledge as the parents and leaders finish and the boys continue with differing endings. Everyone continues to stand at attention, saluting or with their hands over their hearts. No one seems to know how to stop the boys. I bite my tongue....

My son insists that his school's version is the real Pledge.

[acco40]

Bad song for vespers but probably done out of ignorance.

 

Another example, Bruce Springsteen's Born In the USA. It has been adapted by Madison Avenue to sell merchandise as a patriotic song. If one listens to the song, one can easily tell that was not the original intent.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

My current favorite misused song in an Ad Campaign is Wrangler using Credence Clearwater's "Fortunate Son" to sell blue jeans. It has wonderful guitar and a rocking beat, the complete first stanza and chorus is:

 

Some folks are born made to wave the flag

Yeah, the red, white, and blue

When the band plays 'Hail To The Chief'

Yeah, they'll point the cannon at you

 

It ain't me, it ain't me

I'm no millionaire's son

It ain't me, it ain't me

I ain't no fortunate one

 

Not as Patriotic as you would think

[mk9750]

What am I missing here?

 

Separated from the movie (which at BEST sends mixed signals that I don't think are appropriate for Scouts), the song I thought tries to express how un - Scoutlike attitudes (greed, hate, war) don't work if you want real treasure (peace on earth, goodwill to men).

 

Unless I have the message backwards, I think this is a good vespers song.

 

Mark

[OldGreyEagle]

I guess my reaction to the song was due to the mixed message of Billyjack. That of "we all need to live in peace or I'll kick the ever living daylights out of you"

 

In the movie, who is the tin soldier? Billyjack? not a real nice way of labeling a hero as a tin soldier is not a very nice term. The deputy? How does that fit? The Sheriff? Who?

 

Then the topic of the song, the story of the Mountain People and Valley Folk below, by itself might be a strong parable on the clash of material wealth versus peace but how does the refrain "... One tin soldier walks away..." relate? Which side was he on? Was he a spectator? What?

 

Anyway, if you havent seen Billyjack you have to to get a true sense of the 60's. (look for Howard Hessman, he has to be like 19)

[VH_50]

OGE . . . I'd always figured that in the context of the refrain:

 

There won't be any trumpets blowing,

Come the judgement day

On the bloody morning after

One tin soldier rides away.

 

A bloody battlefield on which only a single tin soldier is left standing is a metaphor for total and utter devastation--which the song sees as the *inevitable* result of violence, no matter how "righteous" the motivation for it. [Like many here, I suspect that the movie missed the point of the song . . .]

[OldGreyEagle]

But as much fun as Billyjack was, The Trial of Billyjack and Billyjack goes to Washington was even more ponderous.

 

Perhaps I just wanted to make the song and movie connect ::standing with right arm upraised, fist clenched::

 

Now, can anyone reconcile the song at the end of Kelly's Heroes "Burning Bridges" to the movie?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[VH_50]

On a related note . . .

 

I've been amused for some years now that the song "YMCA" has been shorn of its original connections to the gay subculture of the 1970s and become an apolitical, upbeat audience participation song.

 

But trying to present Credence Clearwater Revival's "Fortunate Son" as a rah-rah patriotic anthem just boggles the mind.

 

At least Mercedes had a sense of irony when it started using "Lord, Won't You Buy Me a Mercedes Benz?" in its commercials!

[Eagle74]

It's all in the eyes (ears) of the beholder.

 

For several years now I have put together a PowerPoint slideshow - set to music - of the past year's events for the August COH. For the last one I used an excerpt - the last 1/4 of the song - from P.O.D.'s "Youth of the Nation". To the words of '. . . we are, we are, the youth of the nation . . . ' the slides are of old Norman Rockwell prints. I also used this section as part of a slideshow during my son's Eagle COH.

 

A number of people commented to me about how much they enjoyed that section of the show; how emotional they thought it was. If they knew the rest of the song they probably wouldn't feel so good about the mix of the song and the scouting slides. But the music excerpt is powerful when set against the Rockwell scouting slides.

 

A little poetic license and an artful mix of seemingly paradoxical things can result in totally different point of view, although sometimes the paradox is recognized by the astute observer much to his humor.

 

It's all in the eyes of the beholder.

 

(If you want to see for yourself and you have access to PowerPoint, I'll email that section of the show. Email me via the forum.)

[Eamonn]

The Music and songs played with the fireworks at the closing of the last jamboree were outstanding

[Zahnada]

I think "One Tin Soldier" has a fine message. It's all in the interpretation. I would caution its use with younger Cub Scouts though. The chorus is the only part many of them hear or remember so they'll leave the song with the lines, "Go ahead and hate your neighbor. Go ahead and cheat a friend." The rest of the chorus gets more difficult to decipher meaning from. I've had a couple young boys confused about the content of the song.

 

It's better than some other songs I've heard at campfires. Most notably, "Shaving Cream" where everytime the audience expects a certain word that starts with "s" it is replaced by "Shaving cream." I've also heard "My Ding-a-ling" which I'm sure most of you are familiar with. And there's another song that I don't know the title of, but the rhyming scheme leads the audience to expect certain words and terms.

 

Problems can be found with any song that wasn't written for scouts (and with some that were). Most Oldies make use of concepts like womanizing, drugs, and subtle sexual inferences. Rap and punk rock is much less subtle.

 

Just remember the purpose of music in Scouting. It is to bring everyone together in an enjoyable and energetic way to build a community.

[acco40]

Somethings never change. During the height of the depression (maybe I should have written depths of the depression!), a song became a hit with the "populists" (the first pop music?). The "establishment" thought the song very subversive, very anti-American and definitely anti-capitalism. It was branded communistic and hated by many. Now the song is viewed as one of the ultimate patriotic songs of our nation. Any guesses? HInt - a precursor to Alice's Restaurant? (See below for the answer.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Woody Guthrie song This Land is Your Land. (This land is your land, this land is my land, from California to the New York Island, from the redwood forest, to the gulfstream waters, this land was made for you and me, etc. The verse that doesn't get sung much - In the squares of the city, By the shadow of the steeple, Near the relief office, I saw my people, And some were stumbling, And some were wondering if, This land was made for you and me. As I went rumbling that dusty highway, I saw a sign that said private property, But on the other side, It didn't say nothing, This land was made for you and me.) Can't get much more of a communistic song than that! Yes, it is all in the eye of the beholder.(This message has been edited by acco40)(This message has been edited by acco40)(This message has been edited by acco40)