1985 Boy Scout commercial with a (now) non-supporter

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

On this we disagree and the root of that disagreement is that I don't think all traits we could list under such a rubric are meaningfully analogous. Being gay or being atheist for example, is not the same as being a convicted sex offender felon. I'm not arguing that BSA should draw no lines and should leave all such choices up to the CO. I'm saying that BSA should allow COs to make their own decisions on gays and atheists.

This slope is not slippery and need not devolve into having no standards at all other than what the CO wants.

(This message has been edited by Callooh! Callay!)

[moosetracker]

A convicted sex offender would show up on the criminal background check.. If something shows up on a criminal background check, then BSA has a right to say no to anyone with a criminal background..

 

For example, I have a friend who after 20 years just got a felony taken off his record, his offense was as a teenager he was wild on a motorcycle.. Even before the record was erased, he probably would have been ok as a SM, but I would understand the council rejecting him for his felony. Doing a full investigation on someone with a felony take a lot of time, money and manpower.. And if it was small enough and they stayed clean for x amount of years.. The felony in time can be erased..

 

Being a homosexual, nor being an atheist will not show up on a criminal background check.. Nor will having had a sex scandal (town knows you had an affair with the preachers wife type of thing).. Nor will being a stripper, unless you get into a few side businesses

 

I dont think we are disagreeing.. I think, you mistook sex scandal for convicted sex offender. The two things are totally different.

 

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

You're right. I misinterpreted what you said to be a slide into having no standards at all for adult leaders other than what the CO determines.

Once again. We are in, not violent agreement, but at least mildly emphatic near agreement.

 

[Tim242]

Make sure you use http://intelligater.com for back-ground checks

[acco40]

White liberal here. Became a liberal because of scouting. Learned about conservation, the trees, the birds, the wildlife, labor unions, and other cool topics. Been a liberal ever since. Was raised in a conservative/moderate family.

 

I like how study and believing in "conservation" makes one a liberal. Also, the fact that wanting less government intrusion (against laws for gay exclusion, abortion, etc.) makes one a liberal.

 

You'd think folks wouldn't bandy about these talking head labels so freely before thinking about what they are saying/posting first.

 

Mr. Takei is in the same situation as many of us - we feel the core of scouting is a great program for our youth but it does have a few blemishes that we wish to change. Exactly how that is best accomplished is worth debating. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[skeptic]

Me thinks Tim242 may be a spammer????

[moosetracker]

I thought the spammer would be the last note on this thread.

 

acco40 - You also forgot that Scouting teaches you to appreciate diversity. To treat everyone with respect. Now BSA may be thinking handicapped, nerds, those not in your economic class, religion etc.. But, kids will include other things.. Now-a-days more then in the past as our schools are now teaching use to respect diversity and they will add to it, homosexuals.

 

Any way, it is another liberal teaching of BSA, that will this policy comes around to nip them in the butt.

 

[Lisabob]

Gotta say, I about fell off my bench when they did the "diversity" talk at WB. I've never been around such a homophobic group of people in my life, and yet these were also the same guys who incessantly joked and talked about being gay, gayness, and gay um...personal relations, and CROSS DRESSED for various purposes. Yes, we had a night where one of the senior staffers came to camp dressed as a woman and proceeded to do all kinds of dumb stuff, some of which was rather lewd. I'm reasonably certain that's not in the syllabus and apparently part of "local tradition" because everybody acted like it was this big deal that they got to see Mr. Smith's...act.

 

But heaven help me, during the diversity lecture, I dared to suggest not-so-under-my-breath that if BSA were serious about diversity then maybe it should consider dropping the prohibition on homosexual leaders. And of course that was heretical.

 

 

[Lisabob]

PS: Acco, the meaning of "liberal" has changed quite a lot over the years. I am not certain, but I suspect BSA24 might mean "liberal" in a different way than you are thinking. Depending on the political tradition one derives the meaning of "liberal" from, you both could be right. And anyway, I think it is a mistake to assume that conservation and environmentalism are necessarily political values. My experience is that people who spend a lot of time outdoors, as scouts tend to, develop a stronger appreciation for, and desire to conserve, nature. That's personal first, only political later. And can it be helped that in recent decades Democrats seemed more concerned environmental conservation than many Republicans?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[packsaddle]

Lisa, I salute your courage at WB, and especially appreciate your observations about the 'incongruence' of the leader's 'latent' tendencies(?). I'm tempted to fall onto my knees in prayer for your soul.

[NJCubScouter]

Good for you, Lisa.

 

Moosetracker says:

 

Now-a-days more then in the past as our schools are now teaching use to respect diversity and they will add to it, homosexuals.

 

They have already added it -- depending on where you live. Where I am, the public schools having been teaching respect for people regardless of sexual orientation for years -- along with the more "traditional" factors like race, religion, gender, etc. And in my state, like some others (but not all), discrimination in hiring on the basis of sexual orientation is illegal. My kids had at least two openly gay teachers when they were in school, that I knew of.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Agreed.. That's why I said "Now-a-days", rather then "In the future".. That is also why schools can no longer host boy scout programs, until someday the rule is changed to it allowing the CO to make their own decisions as to who their scouts & scout leaders can be.. They can not descriminate, and still teach equal rights and equal treatment.

[SeattlePioneer]

Scout activities often feature a simple prayer of some kind, something the "diversity" of politically correct schools recoil from in horror.

 

The "diversity" of politically correct institutions is just another form of orthodoxy imposed upon people. It gives some people new liberties and imposes censorship on others, forcing them into the closet recently vacated by those being smiled upon by the political powers that be.

 

In Seattle the latest word in political orthodoxy is to prohibit retailers from offering plastic bags to those making retail purchases. It's just another way that a political majority imposes it's views on a minority --- for particularly trivial reasons in this case.

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

SeattlePioneer writes:

Scout activities often feature a simple prayer of some kind, something the "diversity" of politically correct schools recoil from in horror.

 

Because public schools can't constitutionally conduct religious rituals like prayer. Or worship services. Or fasting for Ramadan. etc.

 

The "diversity" of politically correct institutions is just another form of orthodoxy imposed upon people. It gives some people new liberties and imposes censorship on others, forcing them into the closet recently vacated by those being smiled upon by the political powers that be.

 

In your imaginary world, maybe. In the real world, nobody has lost any rights, they've just stopped governmental imposition of religion.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Merlyn,