Is it ok to have known gay scouter (now aged out) to events?

[Oak Tree]

This is an interesting mix of understanding the theoretical practices that the rules require, as well as the practical question of what you do in this situation.

 

The young man cannot register as an adult leader. As far as I know, he could register as a Venturing youth, because the last time I saw an official BSA policy on gay youth, it said "In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position." Now, the BSA might also argue that the young man is not agreeing to live by the Scout Oath and Law, as the BSA believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Law.

 

But leaving aside the Venturing question, you might ask whether unregistered adults can come along on troop functions. The answer is yes, absolutely, as in the case of unregistered parents. You can also have other adults come along to provide additional leadership, and they do not have to be registered.

 

Can he bring along his boyfriend? Well, his boyfriend could attend for the same reason.

 

Interesting question about sharing the same tent. I don't believe there is any actual statement on this topic. Clearly adults of the same gender can share the same sleeping facilities. I would suggest treating them as any other unmarried couple, but that is not required by the rules.

 

So, from what I know, the BSA does not prohibit you from inviting along two openly gay adults on a troop trip and allowing them to share a tent.

 

Now, your CO may have a whole different point of view...

 

I think you definitely don't want them sharing a tent.

I'd think you would probably not want to encourage the inviting along of any boyfriends or girlfriends in general in this age group.

If you allow other recently graduated, 18-year old adults to come along, then I'd allow this one to come along too.

 

But you really want to see what your CO says. Just because something is permissible doesn't make it a good idea.

 

 

[kari_cardi]

If the SM doesn't come through and talk to the COR (aka his father) then I think someone should contact the IH. I know ours would be interested in knowing the situation, it has PR/image ramifications for his church.

 

I am sympathetic to the somewhat arbitrary idea that the son was fine as a troop member a few months ago, but now is outlawed from the unit that he presumably worked with for a good chunk of his life. If he wasn't a threat before, why would he be one now? It is an example of the situation that I've long thought would change people's minds about homosexuality and BSA. What happens when it is your son or grandson, not some hypothetical person somewhere else? It would be very hard to walk away from, what is for many families, a way of life. Every single member of my family, male and female, is registered with the BSA. I don't think I could continue if my son or daughter were no longer welcome. I wonder how the SM feels about his son and scouting.

 

[Lisabob]

This has drama-llama written all over it.

 

 

Bail out. Find yourself a functional unit that doesn't require you to navigate the complicated family relations across (at least) 3 generations that you are describing here, keeping secrets from your COR/SM's dad (really? these are adults we're talking about?). More so, considering your recent update in the advancement thread. Just go. Find a healthy troop and you'll probably all enjoy scouting so much more.

 

(To respond to your original question, I believe one's romantic life should be conducted in other venues than at scouting events. This would be true for me, regardless of the orientation of the individuals in question, or their relationship to the SM or COR or whoever else.)

[eisely]

Based on my understanding of the rules, I have to agree with the other posters that there is nothing in BSA national policies that would prevent this young man from showing up, with or without his lover. However, that does not restrict a unit from being more explicit in its limitations. Given the three generation involvement of the family involved, it is almost impossible to do anything without blowing up that family's situation.

 

There is another person in a position of authority here who is not mentioned. That is the committee chair. Let me guess; the committee chair is scoutmaster's spouse. Why isn't the committee chair acting on this situation?(This message has been edited by eisely)

[concernedparent]

Eisley,

 

LOL.. almost.. CC is/was the prior SM's wife (he passed away). Current SM is very good friends with CC and won't let him go... despite knowing about most of what is going on...

 

Has asked in the past that the current SM be given another chance but has not bothered to ask ASM's how things are going..

 

Why don't we bail? We may soon.. (Pack, Crew and most of the Troop..)

[concernedparent]

Lisabob -

 

Drama? lol.. ...if you only knew the other 15/16 of what's going.. yes, enuf is enuf..

[BartHumphries]

I think, regardless of a person's sexual orientation, the only people attending a Boy Scout function should be Scouts, registered leaders and any parents/guardians who are checking it out to see if they want to become registered leaders, or who are needed because there aren't enough registered leaders. From that standpoint, regardless of the aged-out Scouter's sexual orientation, he shouldn't be attending (and if guy in question has no reason to attend, his boyfriend especially has absolutely no reason to attend).

 

I think someone may be getting confused with the Cub Scout program where family camping is the norm.

 

If the COR would have a problem with it and nobody is bringing it up to him, then that's really not right and I'm not surprised that it sounds like it's splitting the troop. The COR (well, the CO, but the COR is the face of the CO) is the one responsible for putting together the Committee who's the Scoutmaster's boss. An adult who's not even a registered leader is all the way at the bottom of the decision-making totem pole for something that like -- attending the Boy Scout event isn't even close to being the Scoutmaster's adult son's decision to make, especially when people already know that the COR would have a problem with it.

[Twocubdad]

At the request of our CO, all adults attending overnighters need to be registered which means they have passed background checks and completed youth protection training.

 

I know folks will be all over the board regarding the gay issue, but sharing a tent with the boyfriend (or girlfriend for that matter) is over the line. I would tell the SM this stops or you go to the COR and or Institutional Head with the matter. That this would essentially "out" the grandson to the grandfather, isn't my problem -- that's not blackmail, it't just the chain of command. If the father doesn't want that to happen, he needs to be dang sure the boyfrind doesn't attend another event.

[concernedparent]

Twocubdad,

 

Actually, SM got a call from the head of our BSA local council and was told to inform the CC and the COR but he elected to just inform the CC...

 

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

So now the Scout Executive (or was it someone else like a District Exec?) called the SM and told him to tell the CC and CR... what, exactly? There are several parts to this. I am trying to envision the conversation in which the SE tells a Scoutmaster that he has to tell his father about his unregistered adult gay son attending multiple camping tips with his boyfriend. My head is spinning here.

 

And by the way, how can you be so sure Grandpa does NOT know that Junior is gay? It seems that everybody else in the whole world knows, from the SE to everybody with a facebook account. Though as I said, I don't think his orientation is the main issue here. I realize the SE may feel differently.(This message has been edited by Njcubscouter)

[nldscout]

concernedparent

 

I tell you what, I will do you a favor. Email me the phone number for your COR and I will call him, since no one there in the unit seems to have the backbone to do it.

 

This individual has NO business being around the troop.

[BS-87]

If the rationale for excluding gay leaders is that Scouting is not the appropriate atmosphere for the subject of homosexuality (or probably all explicitly sexual subjects) to be brought up and discussed, then this individual coming camping with a boyfriend is directly contrary to that aim and needs to cease immediately.

 

I think that's the same reason a Crew doesn't allow 19 yr olds in a Venture Crew of opposite genders to share a tent. Scouting is not an appropriate atmosphere for anything sexual.

 

When you consider discussion of the explicitly sexual is a method of grooming or desensitizing a youth to prepare them for abuse, then you have a whole other reason to remove that element altogether.

 

Sex and Scouting don't mix, that's why subjects that bring up discussion of sex (like orientation) are not appropriate for Scouting.

[ScoutNut]

>>"it was an overnighter at a local university campus where they did security for the Special Olympics event. But some of the boys can't stay up all night so they do go to sleep."

[moosetracker]

Scoutnut - I thought the same thing. When concernedParent picked up the phone to call the DE, over an issue that is not a Council concern due to the boy not being registered.

 

1) There was nothing stated so far that advised "call the council on the matter"..Just me mentioning that "someone" might complain to council, causing a trickle down to Grandpa.. Not at all a statement of a "right" way to handle thing, more a statment of the "wrong" way things may play out..

2) ConcernedParent stated The boy is a good kid and I personally have no problems with this

3) Sounds like a tent sleep together did not occur.. It was assumed due to the mention of an overnighter.. But, if the overnighter was involved with staying up all night does not sound like an event for "tenting together".. Nor was there any mention by the OP that the two showed outward signs of "affection". Simply people were a little concerned. For all we know they acted like two normal boys who were working at a service project.

4) ConcernedParent also stated there are things that they don't like about the troop, and have had other personal battles etc..

 

Just rings the DE was called due to other axes to grind, due to the other situations.. Council just does not like to get involved in internal squabbles, and will not. No point in calling them about it. It usually causes the the person council to not appreciated the caller who can't handle their own affairs, or at least work the hiearchy of who to talk to first, second, third in the correct order.

 

nldscout - not ANY of your concern, you should not be volunteering to bud in..

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

I think folks are mostly missing the point, eh?

 

As unit scouters, the CC, the SM, etc. have an obligation to work on behalf of the Chartered Organization. Adhering to the Chartered Organization's policies and advancing the Chartered Organization's goals for its scouting youth program.

 

Regardless of what we feel about the matter, da Catholic Church sponsor I suspect has some relatively clear and firm expectations with regard to what is being described, and the unit scouters are deliberately undermining the organization they volunteer for.

 

Yeh make an appointment with the pastor or youth ministry director of the parish and invite the COR to join, go in, and let 'em know just the facts. Honestly, the DE should have been settin' something like that up, because he or she has a duty to the Chartered Org. as well, but DEs are often young folks who don't have much experience yet.

 

I'd agree with Lisabob in terms of your own family's involvement, though, fer sure. Muddled up leadership messes tied up with one family are a universal sign of a weak program. If yeh have any other options in your area, yeh should consider them.

 

Beavah