its baaackk.... BSA policy on homosexuals and leadership

[Pint]

From a UK perspective what would happen if we were on an international camp/event in the USA and amongst our leader team we had an openly gay female leader, as well as an openly gay male explorer scout? wold these individuals be kicked out of the USA as soon as their sexual orientations became known?

 

and out of interest what do american Scouters think of the UK support material available here

http://scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=377,378 and could the differences in opinion/policy be used to help draw attention to the issue?

 

copy and paste of the text from the above web link...

 

Member resources > Scouting for all > LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender)

LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender)

 

The Scout Association has an equal opportunities policy, and welcomes members regardless of their sexual orientation.

 

The factsheets below contain more information. If you have any questions, please email diversity.inclusion@scouts.org.uk

 

View Supporting a young person who is gay and in Scouting (FS185083) (PDF)

 

View It's OK to be gay and a Scout: advice for young people (FS185082) (PDF)

 

View Being gay with an adult role in Scouting (FS185081) (PDF)

 

Information Centre Catalogue

 

[perdidochas]

Pint,

Nothing would happen if openly gay international scouts came here on a trip or a jamboree. It's not BSA's business.

[moosetracker]

It will be as individual as what you find on these forums. Though we talk about it on here, and every now and then it may be debated around the campfire.. Gay bashing is not the prime concern of BSA.

 

Hard to say. by BSA discriminating, we do have some in our ranks who feel justified by open prejudice.. For most, who may fight to keep homosexuals out of their units, they will follow the scout law of kind and considerate.. Still many others do not agree with the policy and therefore will treat you with as much respect as anyone else. The tide is turning and at least half of their members disagree with the policy, as you can see from this forum.

 

It is a big individual crap shoot, as to what you may find.

 

Once you are out of earshot, I would not be surprised if you were a topic of conversation.. For those who seek change, it will be a display of how our BSA could learn from your Scouting organization.. For those against, it will be an example of why BSA is right to keep your kind out. Doesn't matter if you met up with both groups and they witnessed you doing and saying the same exact thing..

[NJCubScouter]

I haven't signed the petition, because I don't sign petitions (except for candidates who I support for public office, to get them on the ballot, but that's different.) I just don't think they are an effective way to bring about change.

 

I do, however, oppose the BSA policy on openly gay leaders, as I have been posting here for a little over ten years. I think there should be local option on the subject (which there is not currently), which exists on almost every other leadership issue.

 

Once-Eagle-Always-Eagle, I don't think you have to worry too much about the BSA "caving to societal pressure" as a result of this petition, or the next one or the one after that. The BSA has been defending its position on this subject for many years, and as someone else said, they are well aware that there is opposition to it. I do think that ''eventually'', the balance of societal opinion will shift so strongly against the BSA's policy that if they want to continue to have enough members to remain viable, they will adopt a local option. It's not going to happen this year or next year. Five years? Ten years? Twenty? I don't know. I suspect that when my oldest child's generation (she's in her late 20's) "takes over", there will be no stopping the change. It's just going to happen. But probably too late for the gay moms from Bridgeport, Ohio, and their 7-year-old son.

[Eamonn]

The BSA is ruled by the National Council, the National Council is made up of people who represent the Chartering Organizations.

As things stand right now some of the biggest players are Churches that make no bones about being 100% against homosexuals.

I really can not see the R/C Church or the Mormon Church changing any time soon.

Until they do? The only way I see the BSA changing is if all the other smaller Chartering Organizations start to put pressure on the BSA. Even then I'm not so sure that the BSA would want to jeopardize the relationships that it has had for so long with the R/C's or the Mormon Church.

So far the BSA seems to not care about the out cry from people who are upset and I don't think a on-line petition is going to make any difference.

Maybe working on the churches to change where they stand might be a better move?

But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Pint,

Just as many countries have female Scouts who attend Jamborees and the like, I think that the BSA would welcome all international Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation.

Ea.

[packsaddle]

I'll try to make those links active:

http://scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search?cat=377,378

for the first one and then,

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185083.pdf

for the first document,

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185082.pdf

second document,

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185081.pdf

third document.

 

Edit: If BSA did indeed welcome gay scouts and scouters from other countries, what possible reason would BSA have to continue to treat our OWN citizens with less acceptance? The only reason I can see left would be that 'We Say So' or some similar idiotic reason.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[moosetracker]

Oh yeah, Eamonn answered the question more correctly.. National BSA will not kick you out and those on National payroll are professional, and realize their stance is not the worlds stance. They will welcome you.

 

I was more thinking of individual scouting units you meet up with. And considering some topics on the forum, where some troops still can show prejudice over race or females although their is acceptence in BSA.. If the Troop leaders are not good role models, it will show on the boys.

 

Let us hope that those American troops that go know how to represent us well. Although I have heard, we have had some of our troops at other World Jamborees in other country that are not a credit to us.

 

[Oak Tree]

I'll reinforce what NJCubScouter says. This policy is going to change sooner or later. There is no doubt in my mind. The societal trend is clear - not only are people changing their minds, but younger people are dramatically more in favor of gay marriage than older people. As time progresses, this is going to overwhelm the opposition.

 

I'm not sure who all might force the change. Rex Tillerson is the CEO of Exxon and the President of the BSA. According to Fortune he is one of the 25 most powerful people in business. http://www.scouting.org/Media/MediaKit/Bios/President.aspx

 

Exxon Mobil says "Our global, zero-tolerance policy applies to all forms of discrimination, including discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity."

 

I feel like some of these corporations that are providing support are going to face increasing pressure not to support an organization that is openly discriminatory.

 

Here in NC, there is a gay marriage initiative on the ballot. Gay marriage might get banned, but the numbers are far less than what other southern states have seen in past years. And there are a lot of people who oppose writing discrimination into the state constitution. From one of the local news blogs While some polls still show that the amendment is likely to pass, the opposition to it is passionate, well organized, broad-based, and well funded.

 

Amazingly, that opposition group includes some opponents of same-sex marriage who say they do not want to enshrine discrimination in the states constitution.

 

Many business leaders, fearing the consequences to their increasingly diverse work forces, oppose the amendment.

 

Prominent Republicans like former gubernatorial candidates Richard Vinroot and Robert Orr, as well as John Hood, President of the conservative John Locke Foundation, and Congresswoman Renee Ellers are in the opposition.

 

Even a supporter, Republican House Speaker Tom Tillis, predicts the amendment, if passed, will be repealed within 20 years.

[DLChris71]

I support the BSA position on this matter. I also agree with Beavah that I consider the boy to be the victim in this situation.

[Engineer61]

"I have no idea what the feelings of the great majority of American Scouter's might be."

 

I do ... the boys don't care and while most of the adults and CO's are terrified.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

Personally. I will judge an individual, not by a group he may be associated with/ I do not care if a person is gay or not. It's not like being gay is conatgeous or that suddenly there will be a gay sex fest at meetings and campouts.

 

 

But, I as well as everybody else know what BSA's stance is.

 

I do not join a club to protest their rules and insist they change....especially when part of the clubs identity is based on the rules it has.

 

Know what I mean? I don't get a membership at a bar in order to protest consumption of alcohol.

 

I do not join a gun club because I think guns should be banned.

 

So, while I have no problem with gay or athiest leaders in BSA, I alo know how BSA felt when I joined up.

 

If I really do have an issue with the rule, the thing to do is quit and join another club

[qwazse]

The Presbyterian Church is bleeding members over the homosexual leadership issue. Churches that have left the denomination (for denominations that can contiue to deny homosexuals ordination) claim to have seen membership rebound. I'm skeptical about that, but you can expect to see something of the sort in the BSA. Certain COs will select a different youth movement that maintains a nation-wide ban.

 

For them, following Europe's post-modern trajectory is most undesireable.

 

Like Eng said, the kids could care less, until it's time to chose the religion of their fathers or that of this New Age.

 

For the BSA, then, the question becomes "do we need those COs?"

[Eagledad]

>>For the BSA, then, the question becomes "do we need those COs?"

[qwazse]

from the stats spouted off on this forum, declines in membership have not encouraged the BSA to make any radical shifts in policy.

 

There are lots of donors who contribute to the organization because BSA sticks to its guns. So you may have a point!

 

I haven't seen a single sexual orientation lobby offer the BSA large sums of cash for a policy change.

[nldscout]

Most everyone here talks about what CO's want, what we want, or what the public wants. None of that amounts to DIDDLY SQUAT!

 

The only thing that matters to BSA National is:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

And lots of it. So unless your one of the people or groups that donate in the Multimillion dollar range your opinion does not count.

 

Money, its all about HUGE amounts of MONEY!